How much is enough Part 3: How much is enough at each stage

Featured Song - Enough
From Penstroke Of Genius By Mallz
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Season 2 of the Brunch & Budget podcast will share 3 part arcs of big topics:
Part 1 is KNOW - what are the key things you need to understand about the topic, the bigger systemic picture around it, and where the racial wealth divide fits in
Part 2 is FEEL - how do you integrate the topic into your personal relationship with money and unpack the behaviors, reactions, and habits around it
Part 3 is DO - we take you through Brunch & Budget’s 5 Stages to Financial Legacy so you have clear action steps for what to do at every stage of your finances

Hosts - 

Pamela Capalad is a Certified Financial Planner™ and Accredited Financial Counselor™ and has been in financial services since 2008. She founded Brunch & Budget to help people who felt ashamed or embarrassed about money have a safe place to make real financial progress.  Pam has been featured in the Washington Post, Teen Vogue, Huffington Post, Vice Magazine, and was named New York Magazine’s Best financial planner of New York 2019.

Brian "Dyalekt" Kushner has been a hip-hop MC, theater maker, and educator for nearly 20 years. He’s the director of pedagogy at Pockets Change, where he uses hip-hop pedagogy to demystify personal finance and help students take control of their relationship with money. He is the recipients of Jump$tart’s 2022 Innovation in Financial Literacy award. He’s rocked (performed/taught/keynoted) everywhere from conferences like AFCPE and Prosperity Now, to stages like SXSW and the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, to classrooms that range from Yale to your cousin’s living room.

Pam & Dyalekt host the Brunch & Budget podcast and cofounded Brunch & Budget's group financial planning program for POC called See Change. They regularly keynote on how art, culture, and media are used to perpetuate racial wealth inequality.

For services check out our website 

https://brunchandbudget.com/seechange/
Follow us on Instagram @brunchandbudget

Thanks for listening to the Brunch and Budget podcast. Please feel free to rate us, debate us, hate us, on Apple podcasts or anywhere that lets you subscribe. Add us to your archives and feel free to share an episode you think can help somebody out. If you've got questions, corrections or a song about money financial systems or how you feel about either please send it to letsbrunch@brunchandbudget.com We'd love some indie artists. Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter by texting BRUNCH to 33777. 

Transcript

Dyalekt: 0:03

For real, though,anything is possible. He's just talking about like anything is possible. But just because something is possible doesn't mean that it's likely or even desired. I think sometimes we think that the grass is greener thing or we're just like a possibility means that we should just go for that. And that's like the problem with enough,right? Because there always could be something there

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:23

always could be more. Right? Well,that's why even that question feels so nebulous and hard to answer.

Dyalekt: 0:31

There's a, I forget the timing. It may already be out yet. By the time this comes out,but one of my favorite artists Weird Al Yankovic is it's got a biopic coming out,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:43

did he make it himself as an auto bio in it

Dyalekt: 0:46

and Daniel Radcliffe plays him which, right? I'm about to be hyped for it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:51

Yo,Daniel Radcliffe turned out to be so legit.

Dyalekt: 0:54

Yeah, I'd appreciate he'd be doing interesting work.He's, he's a creative he did.He's like, I did my commercial stuff as a kid and I got my loot. So now I'm gonna do some art. So like, good for you. But I'm in his, not Daniel Radcliffe in the Weird Al's famous movie famous, but his great movie UHF.They have a game show called name that fish. Right and the whole it's it's quite i, we don't have time to talk about the move, maybe we can do a whole special. But name that fish is a game show where you have to name a fish, right? And you get to keep the fish that you can name. And at the end,there's a final round, right?And you get to see this one episode of The they'll show a lot of the show where they said you can keep the red snapper. Or you could have what's in the box. And she's sitting there and she's like, do I want that snappers this big fish sitting on her? Podio? Because this fish oh, it's a big old fish. You know, it's like, you know, it's couple of meals. It's gonna be it's a fancy fish, you know, I'm sure it's fresh, right? And she goes, Alright, I'm gonna take what's in the box. Right? And he brings out the box. And what's in the box? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The whole calls are stupid. It's a whole. It's, it's a thing, right? Where there's like possibility is so sexy.It's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 2:15

so enticing. I bet like nine out of10 times people pick the box,even if they've watched the show and see the boxes nothing every time. But it's not going to be nothing for me. Yeah, I

Dyalekt: 2:25

think that's a real insidious one, right? You get hit in the head a bunch of times. And you're like, No, I'm because I'm strong, smart and special. I'm going to achieve the impossible.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 2:34

In that vein, part three of all of our arcs is about doing. So we take you through brunch and budgets, five stages to financial legacy. Do you have clear action steps or what to do at every stage of your finances.And today, when we talk about the five stages when it comes to enough, we also want to talk about the six financial categories when it comes to what is enough, right. In part two,we talked about calculating your ideal income. And that was about having enough income. And that is such a great place to start.So let's talk about each of the five stages. Yeah, so

Dyalekt: 3:06

the safety stage looks like you're unsure of where your money's going, you have bills,but they feel out of control,your debt feels unmanageable,and you have little to no savings.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:15

If you are in financial stability,which is stage two, it looks like having a savings cushion.So consistently having money in savings, your debt is not increasing, you are learning more about investing. But it still feels like you're one paycheck away from financial trouble. Stage

Dyalekt: 3:29

three is sustainability, which looks like establishing savings and habits and comfortably auto paying your bills. You've got debt, but it's decreasing. And you have retirement investments. And they're increasing. Yes.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:40

So your assets are growing, your liabilities are going down sustainability is that turning point stage right, where you are more than comfortable. And it feels like that you actually do have enough, right? And so then we cross over into financial independence and financial independence looks like working because you want to not because you have to having no credit card debt, having enough save to fully fund extended time off

Dyalekt: 4:06

independence and legacy or where we begin to enforce what is enough. I think the first couple stages you're finding it. And then in the legacy stage, when your investments are funding your lifestyle, when you are contributing significantly to your community. You are setting and hopefully raising the bar of what enough means not for yourself but for your community.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 4:26

Yes.And so the six financial categories are earn, spend,save, borrow, invest and protect. So we're going to talk about those in the context of enough. But first I want to talk about what enough looks like at each

Dyalekt: 4:41

stage. Right? Okay.Yeah. So in the safety stage,what are we looking at? Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 4:45

so in the safety stage, enough is really figuring out what that minimum viable income number needs to be based on your existing expenses. So going back to part two, and calculating your ideal income, the thing about calculating your ideal income Is that changes at every stage. And so keep that in mind as you go through this is safety is all about what is enough income, and most likely you're not making enough income if you're in this stage, right? So it's about setting savings floors, figuring out that minimum viable income, and then also starting to think about how to increase your income to get to financial stability. For most people in the financial safety stage, you're probably already doing as much as you can to cut your expenses. You're doing as much as you can to save what you can. But it always feels like you're kind of spinning your wheels in the safety stage. And most likely, that's because your ideal income is much higher than what you're currently making.

Dyalekt: 5:41

Oh, yeah, it's really tough in that part, because you've got these what it's like the champagne dreams and beer money. So it's up to you. I don't even have beer money.You're drinking tap water?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 5:50

Yes,exactly. Exactly. So if you're in the financial safety net, and what's interesting about the financial safety stage, is it doesn't usually matter. There's no like income range of people in the financial safety stage,we have had people in the financial safety stage making,you know, like high six figures,right. And the reality is that when it comes to what is enough in the safety stage, more often than not, it's just a lack of understanding and lack of awareness of what it actually takes to fund the lifestyle that you want.

Dyalekt: 6:23

Well, there's also folks who are not necessarily in the high six figure stage, but are paying their rent and paying for their food, and they have a little bit of savings. And it's not giving them what they need.But it is a comfortable place.And it feels like if you try to ask for more, you're gonna rock the boat and mess it all up.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 6:41

Yeah,that's a really good point.Actually. We're like, Okay, I'm treading water right now. And I don't want to mess this up.Right. I don't want to sink even though I know, the other option is to swim.

Dyalekt: 6:50

Yeah, I want to remember or want to remind y'all that we need more than to just tread water. I know we're afraid of drowning. And I know that there's people pushing on our shoulders as we're trying to swim. But we need to get up.That's what the minimum viable income stuff is. We'll also remembering what's ahead. Go ahead. Well, guess what?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 7:08

Oh,yeah, well, because this is also why we take you through every single financial stage, even though it may feel like legacy is super far away. Because we want you to know what it can look like to get past that treading water stage, especially if you feel like you've just been in it the whole time.

Dyalekt: 7:23

So speaking of treading water, so that's once we're out of safety. When we're in sustainability, what are we looking at? Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 7:27

so we're we're in stability, it's all about raising the floor. So in safety, we're setting the floor, you're saying, Okay, this is the minimum that I need to survive. Instability, it's about figuring out okay, what is the ideal, right? What is that next step above the absolute minimum,and when you envision Enough,enough isn't, I'm doing as much as I need to, to get by enough is I start to, I start to have space, financially, time energy wise, to actually envision what ideal income looks like to actually envision what it would look like to be able to not just save, but also to invest. And so in this stability stage, you're at that point where you're not necessarily just treading water,and you can start to think about okay, so how do I get to the next stage? What are the habits that I need to put into place right now? What are the you know, what are the income levels I need to hit? What are the expenses that I can cut? What are the expenses, I absolutely want to have no matter what stage I'm in, right. And so when you're instability, you can really start thinking about how to align your spending with your values, and also how to really incorporate your wants into your budget.

Dyalekt: 8:35

This is where you take your power back, when you're in the safety state, you got to do what you got to do. Yeah, you have to compromise and you have to live where they are. And you have to eat the thing that maybe you don't like and take the gig with the people. As you get into stability. That's when you get to start to make these choices.And you don't just want to make these choices that keep you where you're at. You want to be able to make the choices that give you more choices, right LED light. Lets ask the genie for more wishes. Yes,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 8:59

exactly.And the third stage financial sustainability. This is where you can start making concrete plans and goals for ideal income and investments. This is also the stage in financial sustainability, where you can start to envision that fu money right that fu fund for all my contemplator that we talked about in the last stage is these concrete goals and plans start to come into place because you have a solid savings cushion,you are able to invest regularly, right, you're able to pay down your debt in a pretty dramatic way. And so when you're in sustainability, this is where you go beyond thinking about how much is enough in terms of income. And you can start thinking about how much is enough in terms of assets and wealth, right and what it will take for you to get there.

Dyalekt: 9:45

What is that? Because you just said it like it's like Oh, so you just turn the page.Just turn the page, right. How do you do that?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 9:55

I know I said it so casually, like you and I aren't going to this ourselves either. We are it squarely in the financial sustainability stage to be fully transparent. Right you and I dialect

Dyalekt: 10:05

Yeah, yeah, I. But I,you know, wherever you're at in that stage, it just seems like such a mental leap to go from,I'm making money to do stuff to like, Oh, my money is doing stuff, yes, even if it's already happening because like, I know that that's happening to some degree for us. But a lot of it's invisible, right, we've got these robo advisors, right,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 10:24

we got the Roth IRAs, we got the 401,K's going, right, all of that.And that's the real, you can't see dialect, but his hand is like all the way over here like flicking in the corner. And that is kind of where the money feels like, we don't think about our investments very much. It feels like something we're not going to touch until much later in life. Right? And that is probably true. And really in sustainability. You're at the stage where you can start thinking beyond the near future.And that's the difference,right? Where you're building assets, and you're building wealth for me and you 20 years from now. Yeah, and you 30 years from now, I hear that real way.

Dyalekt: 11:03

I think a thing for me that matters a lot is not feeling the desperation of productivity. Hmm. The other day, with pockets change our education organization, we got someone who's helping us with the fundraising part because we got a nonprofit side. And we started the nonprofit side not so we could raise a ton of money or whatever. But because we wanted to help the populations who couldn't afford anything,right. And they were asking us about this way to get an email funnel, I don't want to bore you with all like the marketing background stuff. But my first thought when we put it together was Oh, man. So I've got to make like four videos to help get people to understand what that is get them in the door and get them to like the thing and the consultant stopped me and they're like, No, this thing that we just created, just to get them to the content you already have. You don't have to make more stuff, to get them to get the thing that you want them to have done

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 11:56

enough dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. It was

Dyalekt: 11:59

really hard to listen to that. Because even after they said it, I was like, well, maybe just one video.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 12:07

That is the dialect Enos of that.Yeah, no, it's true. All of us.Well, and I think that also translate, right. So if you're that translates, if you're running your own business, the way that also translates, if you're an employee is there's this like, need to climb the corporate ladder, right? To keep getting promoted to keep getting more responsibility, which leads to more money and up and up and up. And I have a number of clients who hit the financial sustainability stage. And they're like, I don't want another promotion. I don't want more responsibility. I don't want to work more hours at my job. I want to stop Can I stop?Is this enough, right? And so when you hit that ideal income number, and you've gotten to that point where you're like, is it okay to stop? You know,there's so many things that tell us capitalism, you know,whatever, you know, career climbing career ladder, all this stuff, that is like, pushing us to keep going up and up and up some invisible ladder. And the reality is, in this stage, you have to decide where the ladder stops, right. And you might need someone on the outside, right,like dialect you have someone telling you like, no, you've done enough.

Dyalekt: 13:16

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times, I think that we do need the outside thing to be able to stop us because we're taught to be workers, we're taught runners

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 13:24

well,and also, if you're someone who's gone to the financial sustainability stage, that means that you were working super hard to get there, right? And that's your habit, right? You were good at it. That's what you know,that's what your body knows that your body feeling you feeling productive, like gives you those dopamine hits, right. And so when someone tells you like,Hey, you can actually stop.Like, I know, for instance, that when someone tells me that I need to rest, the first like, 30minutes of me trying to rest as me like fidgeting around, trying to figure out if there's any lingering things I need to do.You know, I mean,

Dyalekt: 14:01

this is the sports thing, again, where you know, in sports, the best of the best,get cut down to the smaller best to this to the smaller, best of the best. So we're when we're in the pro league, that means everybody has been the best. And not only that, but they have to be better than the best to even get someone to look in their direction. And again, we started applying those kinds of principles to the office. Yeah.And in the office, like, Hey,you probably are the best of the best, you worked your behind off, you did so much to get there. And you're in the room with the nepotism kid who's got more salary than you with a person who takes a bunch of time off, but you know, whatever.They don't care because they're fulfilling their role, and you're in all this space. And your only reaction to that is like, well, heck, I guess I just got to work twice as hard then.So that I stopped being around these people. And then I get to this mythical place where they're all working as hard as me.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 14:51

Yeah,exactly. And that's not what's gonna happen. So let's go. No.And then these first three stages truly are like, I don't know if we do this on purpose.But they start with us for a reason. Because when you cross over into the fourth stage, the the gap between sustainability and independence is probably much bigger than you think.Today's episode is sponsored by us, French and budget, French and budget is not just a podcast, it's a financial planning practice with a team of certified financial planners,and accredited financial counselors, ready to work with people who need a safe space to talk about your finances. Many of our clients come to us because someone or something made them feel bad about their money. We are the antidote to that. We do all our financial planning and coaching through a racial wealth equity lens. And we'll use our very own five stages to financial legacy to show you how far you've come and where you're headed. go to brunch and budget.com, to learn more.So the financial independence stage is where you get to the point where you have more than enough, right? And this is the place where you can start to figure out what communities you want to support regularly and what communities you want to have a voice in, what percentage of your income or wealth, do you see being able to give away regularly and still have enough and, you know, there's, there's all this talk about legacy and what's going to happen after you die, but you don't have to wait.And what's really exciting about the financial independence stage is all of these values that you were learning how to uphold within yourself, you now have the ability to share with your community.

Dyalekt: 16:29

So basically, you can do the feelings directly. Like you do work because you're like there's a feeling that's not out there, or there's like a tangible thing that's not out there. And it needs to exist,right? So you're doing that doing that doing that. So you can create that. And then when you get to this stage, when you're in Independence, your voice goes beyond who you are.Yeah. And the you're, then you're able to do direct stuff like we're talking about the Patagonia cat, where I don't, I don't know Patagonia super well,but I know that they've always been kind of environmentally ish. So the owner have probably thought about that for decades.And that's been there. And I'm sure they made some kind of actions in this net, the other but now they're able to just directly go straight to it. They don't have to do a fundraiser or ask a celebrity or do any of that stuff. They're just directly funding the thing.That's their values. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 17:22

they just have full control over it.And I would say he's in the legacy stage as a billionaire.But yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, he's

Dyalekt: 17:27

a lesson, you know,we're

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 17:29

sure that when he got to the independence, he didn't just like decide one day like, Oh,crap, I'm a billionaire, I better give all my money away.This has been a value of his throughout him growing his wealth. And now he's gotten to the point where, you know, when he was in the independent stage,he was doing all the things you're saying, Well, this

Dyalekt: 17:46

is the enforcement,when you're in the independent stage, that's when that line becomes clear. And the other money starts to seem like extra money. Yeah, I don't know where that's going.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 17:55

Yeah,I have clients who are in the stage, who will their their goal is to be able to regularly give away 90% of their income. Right?Yeah, because that 10% of income is covering all of their needs.And so when you're in the independence stage, you don't,you don't have to be there, or need to get there. But when you can get to the point where you can think that way and say confidently, like, oh, I want to be able to do that. I want to be able to Gateway X percentage of my income, I want to be able to like fun this community, then that's what financial independence really feels like.

Dyalekt: 18:26

So when you figure out what that community is, and how to do it, is that what legacy is, I think, when it comes to this part enough, right? Legacy is, again, one of those things that feels science fiction of like it's unattainable. So like,why even try? Or if I can get a little bit, we call it a day. So where do we where do we see that? It feels a lot looser there?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 18:49

Yeah,that is the first thing that came to mind when you said that,especially when it comes to the word legacy is, how do you pass those values on to your kids, to your family to the next generation? Right? How do you start building this legacy of having more than enough and feeling comfortable giving it away? The word that I wrote down here is redistribution, right?And you have figured out a way to accumulate wealth, you figured out a way to like, I guess, quote, when capitalism or whatever you want to call it,but you figured out a way to have a business that's not only sustainable, but that is creating profits, that can be redistributed? Is that something where not say that everyone in legacy is going to be a business owner? But is that something where, you know, you make sure that like all of your employees and workers are taken care of in a way that they you hadn't been able to do before? Is that something where you do what you know, Patagonia's owner did and they're literally giving away their company?

Dyalekt: 19:41

Right? Yeah. And well,there I think what's interesting there is it's not going to like the workers are creators.There's there's like a specific cause.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 19:48

Yeah,outside of that, which is in line with the mission of their company to Yeah, but you look at like

Dyalekt: 19:53

a Carnegie and their stuff. It's very arts focused.And that was because Andrew Carnegie was like, I love art.Not only do I love art, I love specific types of art that hold on to my specific values and you see the things get funded. And mind you, I was up for a Carnegie fellowship about hip hop. So it's not that it was just the stuff that he knew. But it's the stuff that retained the values of what he was doing and curating that. And I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 20:17

guess the real dilemma, you know, we talk about legacy. And we think about legacy. And we actually this stage is like, you know,I've had clients who have said,like, I don't ever want to be in financial legacy, I don't ever plan to get to that point,right. And the real dilemma is,when you get to the legacy stage, is that $1 value, and if it is $1 value, and I'm just like thinking about this right now, y'all, if, if it's $1value, does that mean that you really had too much to begin with? Right? Because I think when I was looking at the Patagonia articles, some of the things I said were like, he was an accidental billionaire. And he was like, I didn't mean to make all this money, like hear someone else do good with it.Right. And I think that, you know, that's the other. The other thing to really think about if you're in the legacy stage, or if you find yourself in that stage is Is the goal to what is your goal at this point?

Dyalekt: 21:15

Well, let me jump in real quick. That's exactly what I was thinking about. It's defining if whether or not the legacy stage itself is your goal, or if your goal is squarely there, and independence, and everything after that is gravy. I think that's kind of weird, like the Patagonia versus Carnegie and I wish I had a better I should have like a better example. But like, the Patagonia thing is this like, this is all gravy. I just want this to go to a thing that is my values, and it seems a little unfocused, maybe it's gonna be more focused as it you know, it gets put together. But the other stuff is like, Hey, I have some specific areas where I want to do these things. I think when we're talking about legacy,I always think about Prince and Aretha Franklin in particular,and their lack of having an estate plan and how that hurt the continuation of their legacies. Yes. And that's the thing, there's like, that was a lack of either the goal or understanding that it was gravy,you're just gonna let it pour out over the rice.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 22:15

Right?Well, and All right. Well, I'm just, you know, even bringing up those two as an example, right of no one, I don't know, if anyone really spelled out to them. The fact that they were leaving a legacy and that there was the ability to control what that looked like beyond your life. You know, and I think that's what's really exciting about legacy, regardless of the dollar amount is that you have control over what happens to the wealth that you accumulated.Once you're gone, you know, and this is why when I think of legacy, I also think of like your heirs, and the people come after you and the generations who come after you, regardless of whether you have kids, right about like what, what legacy Are you leaving, where you are leaving this place better than you found it?

Dyalekt: 23:02

I love it, you need to gain control so that you can build your Rhythm Nation.Today's episode is sponsored by us pockets change at pockets change, we offer in person and virtual workshops for students from grade school, to grad school professional development for educators and administrators and jams for the whole family to learn, unlearn and unpack. We use Hip Hop pedagogy in the classroom to meet students where they're at and hip hop performance in the communities to dispel myths and create new common sense around money. For some free resources, go to pockets change.com/toolkit and sign up for our newsletter.Let's change the way we talk about finance. So, this all sounds fun, and exciting and daunting and all but I wonder how much to think about? Well, I just want to pull it back. I think we got like way out there.And I think this is important stuff. But when it comes to enough, I want to pull us back to these categories. Yes, let's do that. It's really hard to think of the broadness of what is enough. I know

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 23:59

what that feels like, how much is enough, right? And so let's talk through each of these in each of the financial categories. So the first financial categories earn,and we've talked about that a lot, right? I feel like that's really also the first step to figuring out how much is enough is how much money do you actually need to be making to fund your lifestyle as you want it now? And you know, we've talked about lifestyle creep before on the show, and I'm sure we'll talk about it again. So your ideal income will change but how much is enough income at every stage, the minimum viable income at financial safety, that ideal income between stability and sustainability, and that enough income? When you get to financial independence, you're like okay, now I can give the rest away. That's

Dyalekt: 24:42

Maroochy and ramen profitable to Costco ramen profitable to nice ramen in Midtown East profitable to go into Tokyo. Beautiful, the ramen centric Can I see something maybe controversial about this one?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 24:59

Yeah.So what would you say if I said no? Yes, go ahead.

Dyalekt: 25:02

I would. That's a good I would either shut up or say it anyway. It's a binary anyway, I would, I kind of think that it might be better if you look at the other ones first before you decide on this. Once you have all the other ones together,that's maybe that's just the money month thing. But for me,it's a lot easier to envision the rest of them. And once I have those together, then I know how much I need. Yes.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 25:24

So feel free to go back and listen this backwards, if that's you.The next financial category is spend. So how much is enough when it comes to spending? And what that means is, I want to go back to the spending values matrix. It's it's the matrix that we have for figuring out what your actual values are when it comes to where you spend your money by what's important to you, by what Yes, that's a good summary. Yes, exactly. And so the, you know, you have your basics, right, that's the first box. And those are your bills,those are your fixed expenses,whatever. That is one aspect of how much is enough when it comes to spending. And then the other aspect is your details, right?So how much is enough? When it comes to your details. And when we say your details, we mean the things that make you feel like you we mean the things that make you feel guilty when you think about them, but also the idea of giving that up feels horrible.

Dyalekt: 26:21

Whatever someone has told you, instead of buying this item, buy one share of stock of the company that owns that item if that's if someone has ever said that thing to you. That is your detail. Yes.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 26:32

This your detail. Yes, yes. No, let me get my pedicures every month,please. Right? You can buy your sneak set of

Dyalekt: 26:38

buying stock in pedicures.com. And when my whole thing from the first?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 26:47

No,but I definitely had someone who told me once they're like, every time I feel like I want to buy something at J Crew, I buy a share of J Crew instead. And I'm like, just go buy it fucking J Crew jacket, please. And stop.

Dyalekt: 26:59

Hey, I mean, my new I don't mind match programs. I like math programs with yourself. That's something a number of times where like, if I do a thing for me, it feels good. Oh, no, she was doing it instead. Right? Well, that's what I'm saying. I like math programs, where you go, you know, you do a thing for yourself. And then you also

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 27:15

do a thing for your future soundbite.Yeah,

Dyalekt: 27:18

that's cool. But when you cut off, because, again, you need a good relationship with you and your future self. But if you're cutting off your current self or your future self, future self, and you'll be happy.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 27:27

And that's really what it is when it comes to spend write in terms of how much is enough, do not give up your current self for the sake of your future. Self

Dyalekt: 27:35

spending isn't a bad thing. Spending isn't a bad thing. Spending money is not a bad thing is a necessary thing.If there wasn't for spending money, there wouldn't be money.Yes, we have. I understand why we've been socialized into thinking about that. But I think when we let go of that, then we can decide on what are the things we want to spend on

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 27:53

the next category is saved. So how much is enough savings, and that came up when we are coming up with our ideal income, right.And so the amount of savings is going to depend on how much income you have, and also how much your ideal income is. And so, you know, I think when it comes to how much is enough saving, that's going to change at every stage as well. In the early stages, it's going to be about being able to save any amount of money. And then as your income grows to prevent something like lifestyle creep to prevent you from spending money on things you don't value.Figure out how to increase your savings as you go. And that will get you to that how much is enough number.

Dyalekt: 28:31

So this is kind of like a little bit of the match program stuff. It's more of like a mental feelings kind of thing.I've been talking a lot about how it not feels science fiction, right? It feels fantasy. It's out there.Different, right? It's impossible to understand like a black mermaid or something.Sorry, I know that's even old reference by now. But people are still salty about it. When you start to get these things, you can start to make it more concrete, right? Yes. And as you make one fantasy a reality, you know, I was making the jokes about like ramen, but hey, I want to brag a little bit. I went to Tokyo for my honeymoon and I ate ramen every day.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 29:10

And he did it twice a day.

Dyalekt: 29:11

Yeah, right in a nice place. Nice restaurants always nice ramen. So that's the thing I did that was like, oh, man, if I could just do that, and it became reality. So that gave me the ability and this gives you the ability to make new fantasy.I love that and let it be a little unrealistic at first and then we work it into being realistic and then we give ourselves more room.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 29:32

Yeah,yeah, totally. I love that. So the next financial category is borrow and so how much is enough when it comes to credit and debt?

Dyalekt: 29:43

You know the answer that you're you're hearing your parents or the back of your head say it's nothing ever you

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 29:48

should never have debt never have debt except when you buy a house or when you buy a car or thing.

Dyalekt: 29:54

You don't want to be beholden. Yes, you don't want to be asked out. You don't want to be desperate But you want to be able to use it? Yeah. Where's that line?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 30:03

Where's that line? And also, for all my paper chase was out there to know you don't need to open another credit card to get the intro points.

Dyalekt: 30:10

Right, right, right,right. Right. Right. Well, I thought you were gonna say like the scheme's everybody was saying about like, Yo, you open a business account, you put See,that's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 30:18

the scheme. That's one of them.Yeah,

Dyalekt: 30:21

I guess there's lots.Yeah. But you know, you don't have to do that. Even if you know, you could. Yeah. And if you know that, you could pull it off, because you got better uses of your time. Yeah. And that's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 30:31

the line for how much is enough to you know, you could, but why?

Dyalekt: 30:36

Yeah, but why? If you can't give yourself a good answer for why then don't

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 30:40

Oh, so the next category is invest. So how much is enough when it comes to investments, and this really feeds into that, that like number of how much is enough when it comes to how much you have in assets? Right?

Dyalekt: 30:53

You know, if you took75% of your income, and you put it in a savings account, and then you put that into a brokerage account and compounds,then you could retire by the time you're 40. Sorry, just like every one of those investments,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 31:14

fire movement, right? Financial independence, retire early, I mean, no shade, but a little shade. Because really, when it comes to investments for the average person who is not setting aside 75% of their income into investments and making their own laundry detergent, and shit, like,really, we were talking about earlier, right? Like your investments are for your future self, and they are most likely for your very future self. And when it comes to investing,investing, when we say long term, we mean like 20 or 30years from now, those investments that you set aside now are for you, when you are50 6070. And you really want to have the ability to work because you want to not because you have to

Dyalekt: 31:57

the idea that your investments will never be enough is the little caricature I was doing earlier, the idea that you will retire at 40 means that you will spend the first 20 years of your life busting your behind to work for this maybe not working out for you type of investment deal. If you realize what enough is then you won't have to worry about creating this extra really hard job for yourself. May or may not work out because there's funny people who were like, fire and then like by time 40 comes like, oh, a lot of this didn't work out and the timing and the market and maybe just give me another 20 years and then another Oh no, you now you're just old like the rest of us.Yeah. So

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 32:37

when it comes to investing, set aside as much as you can, especially if you're in the earlier stages.And no, that is setting you up to be ready. In the in the later stages picking a setting you up?Yes, the last financial category is protect

Dyalekt: 32:52

how much insurance do you really need? Like really?How much insurance do you have?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 32:58

And this is where it comes to spending money to protect your wealth. And no, your insurance is not an investment. No, you don't need whole life insurance?No, you don't need to build up your cash value. I mean, yeah,you know, yeah, there's reasons.You don't need to mix the two right now, especially in the earlier stages, but really,like, what do you need to protect? How do you need to protect it? How much is it gonna cost you to protect

Dyalekt: 33:22

a good example? So we're parents? And when we became parents, we were like,Oh, well, we need to put out a policy just in case. So life insurance, right? You know, we have to, yeah, take care of ourselves. Because we have a kid. And it's very easy to be like, Well, I mean, I want my kid to be okay, so let's put out a $50 million policy so that whatever happens, you can, it's like, oh, Movie Studio. I don't know what Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 33:45

exactly.So that's the thing too, with like insurance. Life insurance is a perfect example. Like, how much do you actually need,right? Because there are plenty of insurance agents who will give you a calculation that will tell you you need like, you know, millions of dollars of insurance. But the reality is,if you think about how much you need to be able to get your kid to a certain age, send them to school, take care of them. If you're gone, all of those kinds of things, then maybe it's not as much as you think.

Dyalekt: 34:12

Yeah, and this is tough, because there's a lot of fear at play, and you kind of need to look into your fear is like what is the thing that you are afraid of happening? And for some of y'all, maybe it's what happened to you. I had a parent die when I was young, and we I don't know how much of a plan we had, but monkey wrenches got thrown in and we ended up with nothing and there's a lot of fear and concern and stuff that I'm still dealing with this to this day. So what are the things you're worried about? What are your fears on that? There was a lot of stuff that we were going into your thank you for listening and thank you for being real with yourselves about the things you were afraid of and things you're dealing with so that we can actually find enough. We've got another song for you about enough is from this artist malls ma LLC out of Raleigh, North Carolina from the album pen stroke of genius with Dr. Kill I think on the beats Working together with it yes Beats by Dr kill K H I L check out enough I'll see you next time

Unknown: 35:32

with like a bit here before but nothing looks familiar they say what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger but I think they might be wrong because the fifth and then Amelie got me feeling like you're gonna want to solve my problems looking for the answers trying to win baits but I'm trying to data cases Jason with the devil spin the mighty be worthless. I don't mean right no more. What's the purpose of this like shitting Working Stress get fed up. So much weight on my shoulders can barely keep my head up. I just say don't let up whatever man I'm done with it.Not afraid of death no more hope is punishment and self inflicted suffering struggling to survive.Watch the whole world crumbling in front of my eyes blindsided by fake sucker punch by happenstance lose lose situation snowballed to win Neverland films like that for men drowsiness security use myself stop safely invisible but no one better yet a new beginning stuff running this hamster wheel reality is so opinion the way it is can't be real. The I'm saying I'm giving them the cube when it goes because that had enough fed up with the slice that I've loved but sometimes man loafing enough I say enough good enough to give with a curse because I had enough fed up with this like that. But sometimes man loving enough my mama says just look good to lose some weight. But she'll notice this been two days since that he was sad to say that it was from depression but truthfully, I don't make good enough in my profession. Excuse the misnomer my job with the dead end hoping that a hold of the duck put me your meds against Alexa for my mood excetra for the migraines expected to be happy but my pain is ignoring my pain to say you wasted my potential pain trying hard enough time heals some wounds but don't keep you from scarring up where Michael didn't get to where I'm sitting that trial from the pain appeals But ain't nobody can be there looking in the mirror at a face to some familiar got a few more gray hairs thinking let's just a tiller we can't get a job because your team is too flat called Go was really everything and pull you still get a bit a college education on me to prepare for it. You flirted with the struggle man I fucked up and married to Jessica was caught she got plans to be a widow everyday is so pretended excetera did I say enough give enough but something's got to give when it comes because I haven't enough fed up with the slight bit of love but sometimes man loving enough I'm saying I'm giving enough somebody got to begin with because I had enough fed up with this like that love but sometimes man loving enough I don't know if God is really listening or if he even cares about position and dislike I'm trying to clear off of what successfully de for heart and soul axilla Hana and that to me my best efforts on the vein ended up convectively bad choices results and my friends not perspective me talked about in effigy or to get the written no not caring about my life only your fault when of loss I'm so sick of this rat race sick of running in place sick of being looked down upon as a basket case of sick of not prospering always have to do without sick upon the gossiping sick aboard the fucking Dell go without my mind because I really thought I had did the school a job thing and none of that shit met it static thoughts trying to figure out what my next move will be coming up with nothing steady living on a loser street I say enough given that we've got to give when it comes because I've had enough fed up with the site but sometimes man loving enough I saying I'm good enough to give when it comes because I had enough fans with this like that.But sometimes man loving enough sup tabs man nothing enough.

Dyalekt: 39:57

Thanks for listening to the brunch and budget podcast please Feel free to rate us debate us hate us. Data's in love infatuate us something that means you'd like us but Ryan's with eight. Say what's up? Tell us we make great stuff on Apple podcasts or really anywhere that lets you come at Reddit YouTube I don't know just tell somebody like just knock on your neighbor's door. Subscribe, add us to your archives feel free to share any episodes that you think will help somebody out help us expand our circle so we can bring the real to more communities. If you got a song about money, financial systems or how you feel about either please send a link or mp3 to dialect dialect.com. Figuring out how to spell it is your only real obstacle. We love some informational intentional,influential songs from indie artists.