Money Can Buy Happiness Part 3 - Breaking The Shame Spiral

Featuring an interview with
Dedrick Asante-Mohammad the chief of membership policy and equity at NCRC
Follow him on Facebook and Twitter.
NCRC Website

Season 2 of the Brunch & Budget podcast will share 3 part arcs of big topics:
Part 1 is KNOW - what are the key things you need to understand about the topic, the bigger systemic picture around it, and where the racial wealth divide fits in
Part 2 is FEEL - how do you integrate the topic into your personal relationship with money and unpack the behaviors, reactions, and habits around it
Part 3 is DO - we take you through Brunch & Budget’s 5 Stages to Financial Legacy so you have clear action steps for what to do at every stage of your finances

Hosts - 

Pamela Capalad is a Certified Financial Planner™ and Accredited Financial Counselor™ and has been in financial services since 2008. She founded Brunch & Budget to help people who felt ashamed or embarrassed about money have a safe place to make real financial progress.  Pam has been featured in the Washington Post, Teen Vogue, Huffington Post, Vice Magazine, and was named New York Magazine’s Best financial planner of New York 2019.

Brian "Dyalekt" Kushner has been a hip-hop MC, theater maker, and educator for nearly 20 years. He’s the director of pedagogy at Pockets Change, where he uses hip-hop pedagogy to demystify personal finance and help students take control of their relationship with money. He is the recipients of Jump$tart’s 2022 Innovation in Financial Literacy award. He’s rocked (performed/taught/keynoted) everywhere from conferences like AFCPE and Prosperity Now, to stages like SXSW and the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, to classrooms that range from Yale to your cousin’s living room.

Pam & Dyalekt host the Brunch & Budget podcast and cofounded Brunch & Budget's group financial planning program for POC called See Change. They regularly keynote on how art, culture, and media are used to perpetuate racial wealth inequality.

For services check out our website 

https://brunchandbudget.com/seechange/
Follow us on Instagram @brunchandbudget

Thanks for listening to the Brunch and Budget podcast. Please feel free to rate us, debate us, hate us, on Apple podcasts or anywhere that lets you subscribe. Add us to your archives and feel free to share an episode you think can help somebody out. If you've got questions, corrections or a song about money financial systems or how you feel about either please send it to letsbrunch@brunchandbudget.com We'd love some indie artists. Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter by texting BRUNCH to 33777. 

Transcript

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:00

All right, everybody, hello, hello, we are back for money can buy happiness part three, money can buy happiness we learned about a lot of things in the first two episodes.

Dyalekt: 0:15

We learned about a lot,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:17

go back and listen to a no. But for real though, the thing about what we're trying to really do here is help you understand why money can buy happiness money can buy a feeling of safety and also help you understand and figure out what money does for you, right

Dyalekt: 0:36

previously on brunch and budget. These cats in the industry and with the powers who are the powers that be have made it seem like money can't buy anything that you really want that it's only there for your necessities, therefore, you should allow them to determine what purchases you make. When we say money can buy happiness, we're not saying go out and spend all your money frivolously and go buy up the world because it's going to feel the empty thing inside your heart. We're saying that you have a voice, you have power, and you can create the world that you want with your time, your energy and your money. Because money isn't time money isn't energy, but it can be used as a substitute for both. Yes,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:14

I love it. That beautiful summary, let me give a little previously. This is why there's two of us. Because when I don't remember what happens, you remember what happened four

Dyalekt: 1:23

years, only two of them work between us where we go figure it out.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:29

So this is part three, what are we gonna do about all of this, right? Because at the end of the day, I think that it really comes down to what really matters to you. And I feel like that figuring out what happiness means to you. And what that looks like for you is really the first step right. And so we want to start with di like, I remember you came up with this a while ago, there are only usually you can break it down to there are only two reasons why people spend money we spend money for one or two reasons. So yeah,

Dyalekt: 1:58

I mean, this is gonna sound oversimplified, but basically, this is the way it goes with money, you're either buying a thing or a service or experience because you want the thing. Or you're buying a service or experience because you want to feel free to do whatever you want. And the reason why I separate these, I always think about I talked about this in class all the time when I was a kid, and I would see that movie or the TV show where the dad lost their job. And the first thing they do is they go to the bar, and they're drinking a beer. And I remember being a kid being like, wait, they just lost their job, they can't pay for the brand. And why would they? How would they spend the money at the bar. And as I got older, and I started having situations where I was broke, but wanting to take my broke behind to the bar, or you know, some kind of place, it's, I did want to feel like I was in control. I remember when my parents were low on cash, and they would still slip me some money. If I needed money, they will still take care of their family because you want to feel like you can do that. And in these like 10 to $20 increments. You can do that. Because the actual thing that's on your back is like 1000s of dollars. Yeah. Yeah, this little tiny

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:11

moment of freedom. And that's interesting thing. So when we started really fleshing this out, I remember you are one and I'm the other for the most part, right? Yeah. So you are you want the power to possess the thing that you want.

Dyalekt: 3:24

Yes, I want to be able to have the thing. It's why like, I have complicated feelings around stuff like layaway. I've done plenty of that. And it makes me stressed because I'm like, Oh, can I just can't I just have that?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:37

Right, right. Yeah, you actually want the thing. And what's interesting is I feel like that's, that is the main reason why people think other people spend money, right? Oh, you wanted this thing. But I am someone who spends money because I want to be able to know that I can do it. It doesn't even matter what it is right? I want the freedom to be able to say I'm taking that off my checklist. Oh my god, it's raining. I want to take an Uber. Oh my God, I want to like make this easier in the moment. I don't even want it. You know, I won't even want it tomorrow. But I want it in the moment even when

Dyalekt: 4:10

you are more likely to buy something that's on sale. Because you're like, I don't need it now. But I might need it. And with me, I can't even I'm not even thinking that long term. So if I'm looking at it and being like, I don't need it now. I can't store it. I don't care if it's on sale.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 4:26

Yeah, well, and it's even it goes even like more essential than that for me of like this like this, like base need to feel like I can write to feel like oh, I can. Like no one's telling me no, I'm a grown up. I'm just allowed to do this.

Dyalekt: 4:41

Did you ever get mad at a black celebrity who went to a rich place and they treated them racist Lee and they bought the whole store out? You know, I think? No, but there's plenty of time. And I think it's what you're saying because me when I saw that stuff happen, I'd be like, Oprah What are you doing? These people are just next to you, why are you giving them money? And I bet you're like, Yeah, I want to show them that I can do this.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 5:07

Yeah, yeah. No, you think you think you know who I am? No, this is who I am.

Dyalekt: 5:11

It's so wild, what we get out of money in terms of our joy, our pleasure. And our power. We talk a lot about free speech in society, what is free speech about, and free speech is very expensive speech at all, free or weather constrained or whatever, it's very expensive. It costs a lot to have a voice to be able to be heard. Purchasing Power is one of the biggest ways that we use our free speech whenever people are talking about, oh, yeah, you know, talk with your money, buy it or don't buy it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 5:40

vote with your dollars. Yeah, well, and that's the thing, too, is like, it's one of the things that like, gives us that immediate and direct moment of I'm in control right now. You know, and that's how, and that's how I feel when I buy something is I'm in control. Right now. I didn't even want the thing. Maybe I just wanted to know that I could have it. And the

Dyalekt: 6:01

thing about this that I think we want heads to know is that this is not an aggressive offensive position. It's actually a defensive position. Yeah, the thing about this is, these are ways in which we're buying these momentary respites, these like pockets of happiness, so that we don't fall into the shame spiral. Yeah, right. Yeah, it doesn't often work. That's I think one of the reasons why people talk about money can't buy happiness, and they say you don't want to fill up this hole is because it doesn't stop the shame spiral. It just gives you like a little break. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 6:32

exactly, exactly. But it doesn't take you out of animate like

Dyalekt: 6:35

Super Mario ledge, the ones that disappear,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 6:38

you only have a few moments, and then all of a sudden, you're back in it. Well, and we want to reference I'm John Jacques Himo. wits is paper, financial shame spirals how shame intensifies financial hardship, because before you can do anything about figuring out how money can buy you happiness, you have to address the shame that you may have around buying things in general, right, and the shame spiral that you might go down, and one of the things that I really want to call out is, in his paper, he says, We have to normalize, we have normalized this idea that when you are poor, it's your fault. And so you should be ashamed of it. At the same time, you've structured society in a way that makes it really hard on people who are poor.

Dyalekt: 7:22

I don't even feel like we need to give examples. It's like, Y'all know, I just I pause was like, because I just had like flooding into my head of all the examples of that all of the ways that people are taught, it sucks to be poor. Well,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 7:34

and also that it's your fault, right? It's because you spent more money than you save, it's because you bought these shoes instead of those shoes. It's because you weren't careful. It's because you weren't thrifty, it's because you didn't buy things on sale. It's all of these reasons that you can put the you can put on people to say like, oh, you should be ashamed of what you've bought, you should be ashamed of the position that you're in, you did this to yourself, Oh, my

Dyalekt: 7:59

peoples who hear these things, and you hear the ones about you. And you think that they're rational, I implore you to pay attention to logic, I know, dear listener, that you are a smart person who thinks about logic and what it is, and I don't want you to be played because logic is a term that's used very colloquially, and a lot of times heads mean it to be. It's the thing I'm thinking that you should agree with. But look at the sentences that are said, if it doesn't work out, mathematically, it's not logic. If it's not blue, people are sad. Sam is blue. Sam is sad, then if the logic statement don't work out, don't worry about what people try to throw on you as logic. A lot of times people use the word logic, just as a weapon. And remember, words only become weapons when they cease to function as tools. I love it. I love it. I'm quoting myself if you know stuff. I know. I was like I was gonna let that

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 8:55

ashtag dialect quotes. No, I love it. No. And the thing is, I think I really liked the example that the paper used about public transportation and this idea that you know, public transportation is inaccessible, it makes you late. It affects people who can't afford cars. Right? And also, if you're late to work consistently, what happens

Dyalekt: 9:18

lose that job? Yeah, I have had my own experience and known plenty of other people where they're in a situation where the public transportation either gets them to work an hour early, or they're like four minutes late. And the boss is like, No, we're not playing this four minutes. So it's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 9:35

always the lowest paying jobs that are like, Wait, why are you a minute late? It's always those jobs that are like, Wait, you didn't clock in at exactly nine o'clock.

Dyalekt: 9:46

Yeah, this is a whole nother episode to talk about. But think about the number of low wage jobs where there is an entire job where they pay a pretty decent salary just to babysit, control and harass the people doing the low wage Oftentimes high skilled work to fast food and retail. Today's episode is sponsored by us buckets change at pockets change we offer in person and virtual workshops for students from grade school to grad school professional development for educators and administrators and jams for the whole family to learn, unlearn and unpack. We use Hip Hop pedagogy in the classroom to meet students where they're at and hiphop performance in the communities to dispel myths and create new common sense around money. For some free resources, go to pocket change.com/toolkit and sign up for our newsletter. Let's change the way we talk about finance.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 10:33

Yeah, so let's talk about the shame spiral some more and how we've, I think, how we've seen it in our yea. Viral into the shame spiral. Well, because I think when even the phrase money can buy happiness, I know that when I hear that phrase, like, and we're doing this episode, part of my brain is like, but that's not what I've learned my whole life. That's not what I've been taught. Is that true?

Dyalekt: 10:57

Well, and it feels like, it feels like you gotta take an L when you're saying that money is gonna buy happiness. Because if you're really good at this whole living being a human thing, you will just create happiness.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 11:07

Yes, exactly. Happiness just happens, right? Why do you need money for that happiness is from nature, go take a walk. Yeah. There's lots of free things you can do that make you happy. Right? There's all of these things already in my head, having researched the show and like talked about this a lot. Where I'm like, is that right, though?

Dyalekt: 11:26

Yeah, I want to pull it back again, to what I was saying about having a voice and having choice. When we talk about happiness, I think, you know, we're being a little hyperbolic in terms of our language about money, be able to buy happiness. And people have these ideas that happiness means this total joy, and we're in a perfect place. But happiness oftentimes is something that allows you to get from point A to point B. Yeah, happiness is something that allows you to believe that what you're doing is worth it. Happiness allows you to believe that you are inherently valuable, yeah. And that you can make good things, you need to find that in the work that you do. Joy. Also, I have had so much talks with a pet so much talk to him and so many talks with people over the past year about creativity and joy. As an artist myself, I found I don't put enough joy into my work, because I'm always worried about the danger. So I'm always creating art, that's armor for people. And armors. Heavy, to get to metaphor and the metaphor, and I feel heavy, and it wears me down. I noticed when I put more joy into my art, I'm better able to say the full breadth of what I mean to Yeah. And that's what we do with our finances, too.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 12:34

Yeah. And I think before we go into the five stages, I want to talk about one thing that comes up in every article that we found about money can buy happiness, and like really examine it because it's also a little judgy. Right, this idea that like

Dyalekt: 12:50

ready for it, we didn't talk about this one thing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 12:53

So this is the common thing that you always see, right? experienced by experiences instead of things experiences make more make you more happy than having things, those memories will last forever, blah, blah, blah, right? And all of this stuff. And, you know, I read this over and over and over and over and to the point where I had to question it and be like, Wait, is that a judgment in and of itself? Also, right? You're telling people money can buy happiness, but only if you do it in this way?

Dyalekt: 13:20

Yeah, I mean, so I don't want to do too much of the like pulling the history back. But this is mostly marketing, the idea that experiences are buying you happiness. This was a big deal in the early 2000s. This was a big marketing thing that came specifically from blogs, the big blogging explosion of like, 2005 ish. Yeah. Where like, yeah, now blogs are a thing and we're all going to it. travel blogs are one of the biggest things I remember when I went on my first few tours in like late 2000s, early 2010s. Everybody was telling me do a travel blog blog, the stuff that you're doing, you'll get people who want to sponsor you people like you know, Patagonia is gonna give you a sweater and a jacket and hang out, show off this whole thing. And where you're creating this, I think it was the precursor to the Instagram character of the like, I'm always on the road doing all this stuff. It's beautiful. And I'm in these places that you've never been and the same way that land is wealth for people. Being a colonizer he feels like wealth to people. So we were all told to go out there and like, be a missionary without being a missionary.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 14:25

Yeah, well, and it became even easier with social media. Right? We did I think this will be our throwback is, is travel the new status symbol, right. Yeah. And it's not about I'm alluding to Yeah, it's not about like, you know, having the jewelry or having the clothes. It's about like, how good of an Instagram picture you putting up today, right? It's about how many likes you're gonna get for sitting on the beach with your laptop. Right? And so when we think about like, what actually matters to us and going back to that, you know, I read so many of these articles and I was like, I bet there's plenty of people who like having things around brings them joy and brings them out Happiness. And just because you're I've also remember talking to clients who were like, you know, I feel a little embarrassed saying this, but I actually hate traveling. I don't like it. I don't want to go to new places. I don't want to go and see other things. Is that okay? And I'm like, Oh my God. Yes, of course. It's okay. It's okay. That that is not the thing that brings you joy. And it's even better that you know that right.

Dyalekt: 15:24

The thing that actually brings you joy. That's, that's the tough part about it is deciding that for yourself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, when you're saying that I got lost in my head about when people talk about heads going to travel different places, and they're eating the same fast food from their hometown. And I'm like, Y'all just didn't want to go, did you?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 15:43

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why did you thought you had to still eat McDonald's.

Dyalekt: 15:46

So this is the thing you were talking about, about this is having the freedom to say, I can go places I can afford to go on a trip, even if that's not the thing in your heart,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 15:57

right? It's the thing that like you see, on social you see your friends doing? You're like, I should want to do this, right. And so when it comes to this, like, you know, and there's so many studies on this, right, that's why we read it over and over. Like, you know, what they found is like, the thing that brings people joy for real, is like experiences and blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff. And it's like, what we want you to do, when you think about this concept of money can buy happiness is really figure out what does bring you joy, and what does bring you happiness outside of other influences and question the things that you think you should that should bring you joy. dialect is like bouncing around right now.

Dyalekt: 16:34

So so so okay. Sorry, because this is kind of a conclusion thing. And I just, I can't wait till the actual end to say this. So maybe I'm getting stuff out of order.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 16:47

Maybe this is the end of the episode.

Dyalekt: 16:50

Because we got it. So in my head, I just proved it. The money can buy happiness, I am right, we're right, when he can buy happiness. It always buys happiness. Money only buys happiness. It either buys happiness for you. Buys happiness for the person that you're purchasing from. Oh, that's the difficulty with all of this, you know, when we say money, can't buy happiness, or money can buy happiness, there's all of this like, well, you should go on a trip, because that'll make you happy. And then you go out and you're like, you know, you don't feel fulfilled people like see money can't buy happiness, or you should buy this car. And that'll make you happy. And that that's all these advertisers, right? That's the them of it. And we either have control. This is like our whole thing. If you rock with brunch or budget with pockets change with sea change the way that we do our thing around money, that way that we get shameless, around money is like we're in control of this. If you spend your money in a way that allows you to have control that allows you to have the things you need near you so that you can be content so that you can be safe. You can be happy if you don't do these things if you're spending money because other people are telling you to because the advertisers are getting to you because you have this necessity this need to create something. You're making all this happiness for people who hate you. So yes, in

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 18:09

the show, boom, I'm done. I'm done.

Dyalekt: 18:15

It's time to preach to the choir, so we're gonna listen to what Diedrich Dietrich said we're gonna preach to the choir with our partner, Diedrich Asante, Mohammed, the chief of membership policy and equity at the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. He is a racial wealth divide expert, friend, colleague, mentor and other wonderful things. If you do decide to get he's got a great booming voice like Chuck D. So let's listen to him speak about some money. Back Back again. These weeks bear Yeah, what's going on? Hey, today we're talking about an idiom that like, it's right. Sometimes, you know, the whole idea of money can't buy happiness. There are times when you won't be able to buy your way out of a feeling but I think especially when it comes to people of color, this phrase is used as a bit of a cudgel a bit of a stay humble. Stay in your place. Don't complain, don't make noise. And I think a lot of times this is meant to cover for why you should be okay with not having access to stuff. Hmm, like, you know, there's always this like, Oh, you don't want this the celebrity thing of like, Oh, you don't want this rich and fame thing. It's so difficult or even just the rich thing of like, oh, the tax system. I think that's why they complained about the taxes a lot like oh, yeah, I made a million dollars but I had to pay complicated taxes. It's, it's not worth it. Yeah, right. Right. So like, I want to wrap you about that like where Where have you seen that? Is that something that is entrenched systemically? Do you think that people are just using it casually to cover for systemic stuff?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 20:10

Yeah. So I mean, I think it can be a helpful phrase, and that pursuing dollars at all costs can be destructive, right. But there's also truth, that if you don't have enough dollars or resources, you're also not going to be very happy, right? Like, it also promotes this idea that you should be able to find your happiness, no matter the material deprivation, you live in or, or the economic insecurity you live in. Right. And I think those, you know, that's, that's not true. And even when I see, you know, people talk about studies, they say, after a certain amount of money, it doesn't bother you that much more happiness, like personal satisfaction. That's true. But it's usually like 200 $300,000 a year of income after that. increases in income doesn't. But yeah, because you are, and it's usually people who live in Western countries that have pretty good infrastructure, and now you have very high individual income, three 300,000 is top 5%. For us incomes are in the top 5%. Yes, I can understand how more money might not buy you happiness, but for the 95% of us who aren't at that level, more money could could actually use correctly, help and get help us with happiness. Even just again, just having security and not worrying if the lights are going to go off. If you're going to have to move, if you're going to be able to keep your kid in the school, you know, that can bring a lot of personal satisfaction. Well, you

Dyalekt: 21:55

know, you said use correctly. And I even think like the ability or the runway to use money incorrectly is kind of a form of happiness. You know, it's tough, we're, you know, paying what I've been talking about, like, well, what are we defining happiness? Is that like freedom from worry, you know? Or is that just baseline? Does it mean like extra on top of these kinds of things, but I think like way, whatever way you slice it, it's, it's providing vital drugs to your brain, to allow you to get through your day and make better things to make better choices. You know, when you feel good, you're able to make the choices you want. There's this correlation between happiness and laziness that you get with your like, Ebenezer Scrooge is working really hard while looking at that family. They're happy and lazy laying about when, in reality, a lot of the great well known at least scholars and thinkers were wealthy layabouts who had nothing but free time to sit and think about their philosophies. Like half the time you read some, like great philosopher from the whatever, hundreds. And you're like, wow, yeah, they really, they must have really been in it to understand the people and stuff. And then you find out, Oh, they're aristocrat, kid. And they were just sitting there observing everybody. And they weren't too busy doing back breaking labor, to think about this kind of stuff, or to write it down. So they were able to pull this out of their leisure. So you know, even in that way, I don't think that that it works, right. The idea that you know, you're happy because you're lazy and you're you don't have money. These things also feel like you're playing old barriers to entry that we have to be like, you don't want this, you're not going to be happy. Can you think of any policies or things like that, that folks have used this like? Well, you don't want this because it's too much of a burden?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 23:47

Well, well, just one of the points we're getting into that. Oh, yeah, my bad, my bad. I'm blanking. I'm blanking on this book, I'll have to figure out but there's a whole book written on this idea of that, you know, by not by not having enough. And like, even like this idea of whether it's dieting or saving money that you don't, you don't perform well, when you're in constant need. And you're constantly thinking about, Oh, I don't have a lot of money. Oh, how much does no cost? How much is bread cost? So thinking about that all the time, wears you down? And makes you have worse decisions? Right? And, and I think you know, that's true, when you don't have a lot of money when you have enough money. And you can really then think big if you think of the long picture, stop being so short sighted. When you don't have enough you try to get by day to day, you better be short sighted. Because one little mistake in the next few hours, could, you know, could really blow up in your face. It's only when you have enough to think more long term that it's easier to do so. So you know, I think that is a you know, really important point and and it's something that It's it dismisses the reality, the short term reality that many people are surviving one with this idea of, you know, money, you know, that could be connected this idea that money doesn't buy happiness, but for many people, money could be a very important step forward in happiness or my again, resources, right, like universal health care, right? A strong public education system that is safe, that all comes about through money. And it really can add a lot of satisfaction and happiness in people's lives. So but Sorry, what was your question?

Dyalekt: 25:35

Well, no, but this is a good flip where you're like, you know, money, what I think this leads into what I want to know is money for yourself, even if you could argue that, you know, taking this personal money won't create a lot of happiness. But money used for public good, can create a lot of happiness, community uplift bits, ability and conversation, less fighting more people greeting each other on the street. So you know, what I was asking was about how this idea of money not being able to buy happiness was a barrier to entry for people of color, I think, you know, poor people of all backgrounds, including white folks. And I think that what you're saying with that as a really interesting segue into that, yeah, yeah, cuz, again, I think we're,

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 26:17

we're flipping this idea. Money doesn't buy me. Yeah, I mean, and it gets again, it shows kind of a bit how it's wrong, because really, it's money for money sake, doesn't buy happiness, right. But money for financial security, for health, the right for stability in your life. Yeah, that can buy you a good amount of happiness. It's just when you have, you know, a certain levels of wealth, the extra money you're getting is no longer buying financial security, you're pretty financially secure already. Right? It's not buying a greater stability or health care, because, you know, at certain point, you have the health care you need, it's money for money sake, doesn't buy happiness, and I think, you know, you know, but but again, money for social good for, you know, stability for health, yes. And we should be focusing a lot more of our economy on money for that, because our, our system poses money as just as just a means to consume more things that really don't serve you over the long term. And that is a type of narrative that needs to be flipped on its head and is, you know, threatening to a consumer economy based on just more and more consumption versus more and more public good. Insecurity.

Dyalekt: 27:33

That makes a lot of sense. I'm pulling up as you mentioned, I don't think Pam and I talked about this the world's 20 happiest countries, according to Forbes magazine, they had done a thing out of the world's 20 happiest countries. Don't worry, we didn't make the list. You I don't know if you want to hazard a guess, at where we came in,

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 27:54

I assume at the bottom because even though we're one of the wealthiest countries in the world, we kind of don't provide mass economic security. So are we at the bottom or am I wrong? Are we getting the top? We're not quite

Dyalekt: 28:07

at the bottom at the bottom is the Sons Daughters and nonbinary children of Leopold out in Belgium. They created a lot of unhappiness for folks so I can see how they get it back.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 28:21

But to be fair, so did we probably contemporarily create more on happiness for folks in Belgium dogs? Probably

Dyalekt: 28:29

most definitely. Most definitely. I mean, they at least created John Claude Van Damme in recent years. So right that was that helped. And above that is the Czech Republic, which has had a lot going on in the past, like 50 ish years. So I can understand they've had a lot of upheaval, even though you know, it's beautiful shout out Dallas Dasco. my homies out there check is you know, beautiful, but then you go on through it. And right above the Czech Republic at number 18 is good old United States.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 28:58

Well, you so yes, we are at the VA. I mean, I didn't mean we were 20. Yeah, we're at the we're at the bottom. Yeah, you're at the bottom, you're 18 There's only two below you and Czech Republic is radically poor than the United States. I assume Belgium substantially four than the United States, I assume. Not really quite clear could go to like Switzerland countries where it's very high per capita income. I'm not clear

Dyalekt: 29:23

on this. Number three, you know, I don't know I'm not a great GDP kind of guy. I don't know all of these in terms of that. But they are generally at least on par with the US. I mean, the UK is five spots above us. Yes. And you know, they they have a lot of similar stuff going on Austria is above us. Finland and Denmark are number one than Iceland and Norway with four and five. Switzerland was at number three. So a lot of

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 29:50

what you're like that should just be the list of Western European social democracies. That's what it says that's exactly the band's what it is and like, and our social democracy is at like, yes, it's maybe right above check of the Czech Republic is like social democracy and that we had the New Deal. But we've been trying to kind of turn against those ideas for the last 5060 years. So, you know, we've never embraced the kind of social democracy public good, that again, Western European, it's not just the idea of social democracy, it's after you've had Western domination of the world and stolen massive amounts of global resources and concentrated in your, in your country, then you have social democracy that distributes that, that stolen wealth, you know, and that can provide a lot of happiness for the people in that country.

Dyalekt: 30:43

Well, yeah, well, it's like you say the way that they spend it, they, the countries that are the happiest are the ones who have stolen a bunch of wealth, and then used it on their citizens. Yes,

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 30:53

that's right. That's right. And we've stolen probably more wealth, we just don't share with our citizens. Definitely not equitably as well as other countries.

Dyalekt: 31:01

Yeah. Well, hey, speaking of like stealing, well, sharing with citizens and stuff like that, I wanted to talk a little bit of news stuff that I figured would be on your radar, and I think has to do with this whole idea of spending on citizens money buying happiness. Reparations may be reparations talking. It's a weird, I feel like, twice every generation reparations gets this big push. We're all talking about it. And it's like a whole thing. And then, you know, it's like, it's like the boxer who gets all the promo right into the title fight and gets knocked out. You never hear from them again. It always kind of feels like that's I don't want to, I never want to get my hopes up. And I think maybe that's part of the system rather than the like you're you feel beat down by it after so many times. But there's this really encouraging stuff, because they're interesting details. I don't know if y'all know about this, but there is a proposal that is in California, I'm not sure exactly what stage it's in. We talk money stuff. And yeah, politics is involved. But I'm not actually a political cat. I don't know where it's at. But Gavin Newsom, his team in California, their reparations team put together this idea that black people should get $223,000 per person, specifically for housing discrimination. They didn't mention other, like other parts of Jim Crow, or, you know, the literacy tests not being able to vote or being enslaved any of those things. Specifically, they're talking about housing discrimination. But this is something that's being talked about as a possibility, and maybe a way that could buy happiness. And I feel like I've been told, and I'm sure you've been told, by white people, either personally or in large positions of power, that, well, this isn't going to make you happy. This isn't what you really want. Also, I think there's a fear of white people that like it will enhance our greed rather than our happiness and be like, well, this is just going to make you want to take over everything.

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 33:02

Well, and well, and also, you know, on the other end, I think there can be this idea of that, because it's one I want to say, I just looked at a little, like briefly a couple articles, but I do feel positive that people like Dr. William sprigs out of Howard University, Dr. William Garrity, long term advocate around racial wealth divide or bridging the racial wealth divide baby bonds and reparations, great book on reparations to deal with his wife recently, um, are, you know, a part of the committee that helped put together what I believe this as is a report on estimating what would reparations look like? Well, actually, I don't think we can use the phrase reparations. What would financial investment in blacks look like in order to address the housing inequality? They suffer from what I understand from like, 33 to 73. Right. So for 40 years, and I think it's important that it's specific, because we say reparations, and historically, reparations was like, we want to repair the overall damage done in the United States case to black people by white supremacy. And you know, and there's been a lot of talk about dollar figures. I've written op ed about 20 years of what was it, I think, 20 years of $20,000 a year for all African Americans or what have you, and people also putting other big programs. So there's kind of a massive reparations, but this is a specific California State dealing with housing and$200,000, I think is a, you know, interesting number. I think it is substantive doesn't mean that all the harm has been repaired. But I think on a positive note, I'm glad that there are more specific proposals that could be done at a city state level and maybe can build to, you know, stronger momentum for national you know, I mean, I doubt that the American public will really embrace reparations, but If you could get a state like California to do a specific area of reparations that I think if we gave the money and there and there were housing programs to really help that increase black homeownership, that could be a substantive change for African Americans who've had been about 43% homeownership for the last 60 years, even as white homeownership has gone up to now about 73%. So I think it could have a substantive effect, though it won't solve, obviously, all problems of racial inequality between blacks and whites in the US. Yeah, I

Dyalekt: 35:35

really dig the whole thing about we should also have guidance about since it's about housing discrimination, right. And I think the specificity is something that more people can get on board with, because it's like, Japanese internment camps. They paid reparations for that, because they were like, here's a specific thing that we could point to, it's really easily verifiable. It's not like, like you said, the broadness of being enslaved and discriminatory practices, which

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 36:01

I will say enslavement is specific, like we could do it, it just people don't want to spend that type of money. And I think that is a federal national issue. But But anyway, you know, but for state, you know, I think it's important step four, you know, like you said something specific Housing California, great. Maybe other states could do something similar.

Dyalekt: 36:20

Yeah. Do you think that they would find like the same thing? Or do you think that it would be a better idea to try to use some of the other specifics, to try to gain momentum for getting more for all of that?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 36:32

You know, it's interesting, there seems to have been an embrace, there's been an embrace of discussing racial wealth gap as a whole. And people have really embraced as a central component, the whole redlining piece, and, you know, homeownership inequality and these types of things. So I don't exactly know why. That has been the one area that has been more popularly accepted, but I'll use it. And maybe just because it was a clear 20th century example of mass government investment, that disenfranchise black people in particular. So maybe, maybe just a clear example. So yeah, yeah, let's use housing and housing is the number one source of wealth for most Americans. So I think it's a great starting place.

Dyalekt: 37:17

And with that, oh, man, that, that that's heavy. With so we're talking about like money and happiness. Can we can, can you, we go on a more positive note to end us out, can you tell me about the last thing you spent money on that made you happy?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 37:36

The last thing I spent money on that made me happy. I'm a little hesitant, say, but it was a pretty luxurious expense, actually. So it might counter my whole previous narrative. But I did take my family to a vacation in Jamaica, which was amazing for the family. You know, it's, again, it's not like I'm not like really out there seeing the people of Jamaica, it was like a resort, what have you. But I do love taking my girls to a predominantly black country, getting away from everything, you're kind of on the beach and just getting away. And girls have really kind of appreciated that it got us a little bit more connected to reggae music, these types of things, but very much a vacation. It wasn't a people's trip, you know, I'm hoping to do people's trips in the future. But that was a vacation with the family is the type of thing I do enjoy spending money on. You know, it's weird, though. I think of that, because I think of that as spending money. But in probably the most recent thing I spent is like, my girls are in basketball class, a martial arts class, and I regularly pay the bills on that. And we do love that right? Like, and we love going to the family watching the games and these types of things. I think even when you ask that question, I think of the big dollar spending thing, but not the thing that every day, I'm spending money on a few things here and there, which actually bring a lot of day to day joy to the family. So you know, there's a mix.

Dyalekt: 39:07

I love both of those, please black people, feel free to go on vacation. I know vacations are part of exploitative things. And I know many hotels and Caribbean islands are not great things for everybody. And those are things that in some ways we can work on solving and other ways are very difficult to But you bring up two really important things enrichment and rest. And those are things that have been historically denied to people of color. And for many reasons. You know, even when we do have things like public pools, there are intentional things that folks allowed to happen to make them worse to make them for a second class citizen and make us feel like this is all we deserve and that we should be okay with this, even if it doesn't make us happy. But having this enrichment, having access to martial arts and deciding for yourself whether or not you think you're a martial artist who's going to have this discipline in your life It is so great and important for you for your kids to complain, Oh, I'm tired of playing basketball and stuff like that. That's a beautiful and happy place to be. And I think that is really encouraging for us to say that we want these things and be okay with wanting these things. Because the folks who tell us that we shouldn't want these things that oh, the country club is overcrowded, and the food's not that great anyway, they just want to keep it from getting crowded with people like you. So yeah, I really dig that. And I understand the weird shame that comes in to say, like, Hey, I feel weird about saying I took a break. Because collectively as a people, we're like, not allowed to take breaks. And there are a lot of people who we care about, and people we have connection to, and people we want to help, who can't take breaks. And we're not going to help them by also drowning, which is was the thing that we always have to figure out and get together. And finding the ways that this extractive capitalistic world can give us some joy, some energy to keep going and to keep making the changes that we want to and find the energy to go out and have people trips, they go out and help folks. But like, Hey, let me tell you, as somebody who grew up in a Caribbean island, don't go to ja like without some some homie, they're like, if you got some family, some friends only gonna bring you to the neighborhood. Cool. But otherwise, you know, it's best to just go with the tourists. So we find our ways to make the things that we want. Thank you for that. Any other things you want to say before we wrap up?

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 41:35

No, no, I mean, I will be interested in seeing how these you know, it's what's sad is we've been fighting for reparations for so long, and we are making progress. But the progress is a report. You know what I mean? That's, that's the progress. I'll be interested to see. If there's, you know, progress and actually repairing the socio economic harms, you know, and I think it's important, we're having discussions about, you know, money buying us happiness, and what type of harm and help you know, those types of raises can beat us,

Dyalekt: 42:06

huh. So yeah, and then you finish those off with the last great point is that, you know, regardless of whether money is buying extra happiness, we're just releasing sadness. The fact that we're able to have real conversations about it is going to put us in a place where we're able to have healthier relationships with it. Thanks,

Dedrick Asante-Muhammad: 42:25

Peter. Love it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 42:29

The thing that I really want to talk through is how can you think about money being able to buy happiness through each of the stages, especially the earlier stages because that is where people tend to have the most shame around spending money on things they want and not just on things they need?

Dyalekt: 42:45

I think this is the first thing I just said this big explosive stuff of like money is always gonna be happiness and how can you buy happiness for yourself is first figuring out what is the shame What is your shame point I guess rather than your pain point? I don't know. I don't know if y'all know this term that can you explain pain point well yes, this is fun

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 43:05

marketing term love it is basically the pain point is like where customer feels like they they're experiencing pain and how is this product going to fix it? Right? How is this product gonna fix this pain? Like for instance, like oh my gosh, I really hate having to like hail a cab in the city. Like that's a pain point. Right? I really hate that there are no cabs in Brooklyn it's so hard to like get a car

Dyalekt: 43:35

right you know, you never got explosive enough but let me get more explosive okay this is the part where it's like gross is like you know, Dr. Scholz whole thing is that people have blisters on their feet. Dr. Shoal is really excited about blistery feet and people like that's like a paint. That's the literal, literal unemotional and like just make an explicit like Dr. Shoal is happy about writes little notes for himself or herself himself actually don't know who Dr Shoal is, but puts it all together has spreadsheets and meetings about how exciting is that there's new psoriasis going on. People are getting blisters in different ways. So we have to make ways to

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 44:12

alleviate their pain points or blisters. Yes.

Dyalekt: 44:15

And it's also a big shame thing. One of the biggest pain points is shame. What are you ashamed about? What do you feel like a loser about that's where the beer commercials come in and look right. feeling excited?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 44:24

Yeah, no, totally. And that's I mean, I love that the phrase shame point because that's really what it is, is it's not like a bid for for most pain points that people are solving. It's not a literal, like blister on your foot. Right? That is like, Okay, let me alleviate an actual pain. It is. I feel stupid. I feel dumb. I feel like a loser. I feel like a reject. And so this is going to make me feel like I belong. This is going to validate me this is going to make me feel like I'm doing the right things, right? This is gonna make me feel like a winner. And so those are the pain points that really get to people, those emotional points of like I feel low. I feel like I'm not a part of something. I feel like I don't belong. And so this thing is going to make me feel like that I do.

Dyalekt: 45:07

Yeah. And the whole thing of the happiness stuff and whether things buy happiness or not, as you're describing that it feels like the difference between medicine and drugs. You know, there's the thing that alleviate your systems allow you to get through the stuff. And then there's the other things I remember when I first learned about what ecstasy does. And they're like, ecstasy makes you feel really good for a minute. And then you say, Well, yeah, it takes away all of the stuff that you had. Yeah. So then you just completely drop in a heap to the floor. Yeah. And then you need again. And that's what these purchases can be sometimes, yeah, we're not in control. Yeah, if there are other people's stuff. Or for our comic book, nerds, there's like the Superman power where he blasts out all of his stuff, and then he's human for a day after that, yeah. And you're vulnerable, and you're weak, and you buy the stuff they tell you to. But I swear to you, if we have control, if we get the things that actually do matter to us, then it won't be a momentary respite. It will be a thing that fulfills us, it will be a thing that takes time off of our back. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 46:06

it'll be a thing that builds on itself, right, it'll be a thing where like, you can build willpower, because the thing is, we always talk about how you need to replenish your willpower. But if you figure out how to replenish your willpower and treat it like a muscle, then you'll need it, you'll deplete it less and less each time, right. And that's how we want you to think of money being able to buy happiness is not going all the way to the bottom and having to replenish real power all the way back up and having it be the seesaw effect. But having it be this thing where like, you're just like in a good place. Today's episode is sponsored by us, French and budget, French and budget is not just a podcast, it's a financial planning practice with a team of certified financial planners, and accredited financial counselors, ready to work with people who need a safe space to talk about your finances. Many of our clients come to us because someone or something made them feel bad about their money. We are the antidote to that. We do all our financial planning and coaching through a racial wealth equity lens. And we'll use our very own five stages to financial legacy to show you how far you've come and where you're headed. go to brunch and budget.com to learn more. And so let's talk about each of the stages, we have the financial safety stage, which looks like you're unsure where your money is going, your bills feel out of control, your debt feels unmanageable, and you have little to no savings. This is where a lot of shame lives

Dyalekt: 47:31

after that is your stability, where it looks like you have a savings cushion, you have debt, but it's not increasing. You're learning more about investing, but you're still one paycheck away from financial trouble.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 47:41

And sustainability looks like you have established savings and habits, you comfortably auto pay your bills, your debt is decreasing. And you most likely have enough savings where all of your money can go towards all of your future savings go towards investments.

Dyalekt: 47:57

And then after that you get into independence. And that looks like you're working because you want to not because you have to. You don't really have credit card debt like that you have enough saved to fund extended time off that six months off to write the novel you always wanted. And you're you're chillin. Yeah. Yeah, but that's not the end with the end.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 48:15

No, the end is financial legacy and financial legacy looks like having more than enough, right? It looks like your investments are funny your lifestyle, you're able to contribute significantly to your community. You don't need a credit score. Money is like not an object for you.

Dyalekt: 48:30

Yeah, I mean, that's the point where when you talk about money buying happiness, you're able to create happiness in the world. Yeah, you derive your pleasure from that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 48:38

Yeah, I love that. Oh, yeah. We start with legacy. That's good. Well, yeah, I'm just

Dyalekt: 48:43

right. That's, that's the easy part of it. When we talk about having a voice was from saying it's very expensive. That's when you can buy a whole foundation, that's when you can create a scholarship that will exist for years and years. That's where you can fund an arts program and keep it alive forever.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 48:57

Yeah. So let's go back to safety and how to think about how money can buy happiness in the safety stage. And I think, for people in this stage, the most important thing to remember is that your net worth does not equal your self worth and that wants our leads to, right.

Dyalekt: 49:14

Yeah, I also want to say something about the safety stage where, you know, I think mantra needs to is very important and to think about, like, what's important to us and our desires. And as we think about our once our needs, moving to the stability stage, and getting yourself in that place is another way of making yourself happy. Yeah, I think in the safety stage, there was a lot of fear and a lot of stress around things. And when I was in the safety stage, in all of my stuff, all I wanted was to have a little more so that I didn't have to think about it so hard, so that I could think about the things that I want and the things that I love. So while we're remembering to like you know, buy the snack or go to the place that means something to you even when you're in this stage. Think about the ways in which this economic liberal ratio you're building for yourself makes you happy. Because if it doesn't feel good to you, you're not gonna continue doing it. So in what ways does it feel good?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 50:08

I love that. I love that so much. Yeah,

Dyalekt: 50:11

I wish I could actually I as I'm saying this, I'm like, what are some ways for me to remember anyways? That like when you were really didn't have your loot together? What were the ways that you realize were that you convinced yourself convinced yourself that it was worth it? Yeah, put some money away.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 50:26

Yeah, I think that for me when I was in the financial safety stage, it was it a lot of it was about good giving myself permission to want things in the first place. And when you want things, and you can't afford them yet, but you don't feel shame about not being able to afford it yet. I think that's the key is like really figuring out, hey, like, I, I want this thing. And I can save up for it. Right. And I think too, when I was in the safety stage, being able to save up for like, a thing. Like I love to travel. And so I wanted to save up for like a trip to Europe, I've never been to Europe, I really wanted to go and to have like, it wasn't like my next goal was like, oh, I want to buy a house. Right? Which like felt so far away. And like so impossible at that time. But it was this thing of like, oh, how cheaply Can I go to Europe? How much is it going to cost? And what will it take to save up for it? And having that win that I could look forward to where I said, Okay, maybe I'm not going to buy lunch at work today. Or maybe I'm not going to go out for coffee that day, it felt like it was moving toward something that was really clear in my mind.

Dyalekt: 51:41

You get told this a lot. My buddy money folks have like, you should instead of buying the coffee, you should go and save the money because you'll get to be able to buy the trip. And yeah, they got it, whatever.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 51:52

No, they don't even do that. They're like, you'll be able to save for retirement. And I'm like, I was 22 and finance and I didn't care about saving for retirement.

Dyalekt: 52:00

But the thing that feels real to you is the stuff you're going to do. Yeah, exactly. And I think all you need for that is to find a thing. And this is what we mean about going delving into our spending values matrix and the other tools that we have for figuring out what's important to you. Finding one latching onto it and seeing what falls away naturally.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 52:18

Yeah, yeah, it's not so much what you should give up as what you just end up giving up as a result of you having this other thing instead.

Dyalekt: 52:26

You know, when I decided that I wanted to stop recording, if I were talking about this earlier, stop recording just in these home studios and start spending for like nice studios and things like that, that made it easier to not have the two booths slice at 2am. We could just get the regular slice.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 52:43

You don't need all of the toppings on there.

Dyalekt: 52:45

I didn't need Yeah, I don't need the celebrity name.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 52:49

I feel that and those little decisions do add up right. It may not feel like it at the time, but they do add up. But these

Dyalekt: 52:57

are this is the difference between all of the latte factor type stuff is like these are the decisions that build up to something Yeah, ones that lead to the thing that you want, rather than the stuff that leads to what they want. Yeah, happiness.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 53:11

Yeah. So as you move into the financial stability stage, then it really can be about making sure that you budget for your wants as much as you budget for your needs. Right? When you are in the stability stage, give yourself the room that you've given yourself already financially to do that, because that is what is going to get you to the sustainability stage that feels counterintuitive. But you being able to say yes, this is what I want. I earned it. It's worth it to me to spend this money, it was worth my energy to have this that is meaningful in the stability stage.

Dyalekt: 53:48

This is where you create your line item. Yeah, yeah, it

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 53:51

can be whatever. It could be coffee every day,

Dyalekt: 53:54

it could be coffee every day pedicures every week, something a little bit larger. This is where you find something that is a non negotiable. And you lay down your plan, you set your line item, you save your money for it, you spend the money on it, you track it to make sure that it's all good. But that's not just you getting that for yourself that you practicing doing more and more because as you get more financially stable and sustainable and independent, you'll be able to make that your life.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 54:20

Yeah, absolutely. And I think at every stage, it's about what's the next thing you're giving yourself permission for, right? Because at every stage, you're still going to remember the stage before it and there's gonna be a little bit of shame and a little bit of fear about like, Wait, can I really do this? If I do this? Will this break me? Will this break my finances if I'm able to do this now, you know, and so figuring out how to feel in control of those moments as well as you move into the next stage I think is also really important. So as we move out of stability into sustainability, and what that looks like is instant ability, you have one line item, right? And it's what's interesting is as we move into these stages, the risk of lifestyle creep goes up, right? Because you're making more money or you have more money saved, you've paid off some credit card debt, you have more wiggle room in your budget. And this is where between stability and sustainability is where you kind of blur the line between I want this or it's just convenient.

Dyalekt: 55:23

Yeah, well, and this is the time when you're really like, like Pam was saying, it's not just the one line item you've created. This is when you're filling out your entire spending values matrix, and you're figuring out what are the things that matter to me? Yeah, what are the things that I want to have in my life that are going to continue to be expenses that are going to build up the stuff that I'm doing this is when your life is really taking shape?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 55:44

Yeah. And I think too, it's interesting, because it doesn't mean that you have to spend more money, right. So like, when I was in the stability stage, I had like a regular job regular paycheck. This is before had started brunch and budget. And one of my line items for sure was manicures and pedicures for sure. I had decided like buying lunch every day was not a thing for me. I didn't need to buy coffee every day. But every week I would get a manicure. And then every month at least I'd get a pedicure, right. That was like my thing that was my line item. And then as I as I was working towards moving into the sustainability stage, and you know, we were in the midst of like trying to buy a house. It was really reexamining that and figuring out why that was happening, right? And why I was doing that and why that was something that was important to me to do. And as my lifestyle change. And as I like left my job and started brunch and budget, I reexamined those items, right? Because the thing that I was worried about was letting go of my job meant I was potentially letting go of like some pretty serious financial stability.

Dyalekt: 56:51

Yeah, you know, just pursuant to the indie artists combo that we were having even before we started recording, I was just trying to think about to make it concrete. You know, safety looks like paying for Toon core. Stability feels like paying for beats. Sustainability feels like paying for studio time. Independence feels like paying for a marketing campaign. And legacy feels like starting the record label for the community. It's super oversimplified. I just you know, I know a lot of artists, cats are the ones who listen to this when we jam on. And this was a little bit of my Yeah, where I'm at, in my Yeah, you see, I haven't started the record label. No, I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 57:32

love I think about like the things that I choose to spend money now on and the sustainability stage and like things I would let never let myself spend money on in the stability or safety stage. And like, you know, I remember the day that I bought like a $700 pair of boots. And I was like, Oh my God, nobody told my mom.

Dyalekt: 57:54

Well, you know why I you know, I sometimes would not work with producers, or get studio time is because I couldn't afford it consistently. I would have a thing where it's like, Yo, I should you know, I got a couple 100 bucks to spend, I should put some money down and get the studio and then you know, you look at your math and you're like, that means I can do half the record in a nice studio. And the other half I'm gonna have to do at home. Or, oh, man, I could pay for one beat from this cat. And that's, that's, that feels weird. I you know, I'm gonna be in the in the booth with him being like, Oh, I love this one. I love this. I love this one. And they're like, what do you what do you want to get like, oh, I'll just I'll just, I'll just get this. And it's, you know, that feeling when you go to the store and you're like, I'm not gonna take one thing, or you go to the restaurant, you're like, I guess I'm just getting the appetizers. I didn't realize entrees were so much. And again, this is the shame. Shame keeps you from getting the stuff you want. Because you don't feel like you look like you can do it. Unless you do all of it. Yeah, that's mad hard to let go

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 58:54

is ah, ah, it's so true. It's

Dyalekt: 58:59

okay, if you still haven't, but we should try to. Yeah, yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 59:02

I think so. I think so well, and then when you get to the independence stage, when it comes to money, being able to buy happiness, I feel like that between sustainability and independence, we always talk about this because the gap between those two stages can be pretty wide. You know, I feel like that you and I have been in the sustainability stage for a while. And we are still a ways away from the independent stage. I'd say right, it's true. It's yeah. So I feel like that when it comes to going in between when it comes to like finding your way from sustainability to independence. A big part of it is the way to get there more quickly, is to really know what buys you happiness, right? And to really have clarity on that and to really say yes, this not just like these things are these moments but like this lifestyle right here. This like vision that I have of like my perfect week or how I would do my day or what kind of work I'm doing on a regular basis. That's making me enough money. That's what that looks like. And I have a laser focus on what it's going to take to get there. Right. And so when you get from sustainability to independence, and you know what that is, and you have that clarity of vision, that's where that leap happens. And we're not there yet. I'm just saying that right now. I feel like that we are squarely in the sustainability stage. And what's keeping us from the independence stage in a lot of ways is, I don't think we have total clarity, even between the two of us on like, what things buy us happiness, what things bring us joy, what work brings us joy, what work brings us happiness, right? We're still figuring that out. And because of that, we do. We do spend money on things that we're like, oh, I'm still trying to figure it out. Right? To go back to your analogy, dialectic between independence and legacy, is, you know, independence is you being able to share and spread like what you're doing, right, you mentioned the marketing campaign, and being able to have a team behind you. And I feel like when it comes to legacy is, how can you help other people find their happiness, right, you're in a place now with legacy and probably, in the later stages of independence, where you have more than enough you have that clarity of vision, you know, why you're spending money on things you feel the freedom to spend what you want, buy what you want, you know, have what you need, and have that stability. So when it comes to financial legacy, and money, being able to buy happiness, I think this is the thing that's often I you know, I think back to the trope of like, you know, rich people aren't happy, or like, you know, they might have money, but they don't have any happiness, right? And how can you enter the legacy stage, in a place where that clarity of vision that you had in financial independence carries over into legacy stage where you're able to redistribute the happiness that you've accumulated, to your community, to your family, to other people.

Dyalekt: 1:02:02

Also, remember that people say that rich people don't have happiness is the reason behind that is this implication that rich people are too busy working hard to be happy, and that happiness is a fleeting and imperfect and amoral thing? Yeah. Remember, that's not true. Please remember, that's not true that rich people are just busting their behind, you are busting your behind, you are working hard, trying to achieve the things that you want. Because you were working hard, it doesn't mean you can't access happiness, it doesn't mean that you don't deserve happiness. And it doesn't mean that success will not line up with happiness, it will. This is a lie that folks have told you because they don't want you to be on the same level as them, get on the level and be happy about it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:02:49

So that's that those are the five stages when it comes to how money can buy happiness. And I think the thing to really remember in all of this is do not let anyone let you feel shame for what makes you happy.

Dyalekt: 1:03:01

Yeah, don't don't let you know people saying today, don't kink shame. But don't spend shame. Don't save shame, don't shame. Specifically, don't shame yourself. Don't let other folks give you shame and allow that shame to make it so that you don't get the things that you want. And you're not able to take care of yourself. You're not able to take care of your family and you're not able to take care of community those things whether necessities or frivolities are all methods of obtaining happiness

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:03:32

Yeah, and they're all what makes you you

Dyalekt: 1:03:35

that that that all right yeah, now we're done. Let's go to a song we got a song from Culver City California really dope MC named verbs with the BS capitalized so you know it's about that action not about that BS and we'll check you next time the song is called happiness Produced by Duke Westlake take your next time

Unknown: 1:04:11

it's a pity that the city just obtained you guys go man back together great TV three died down day one so my name is Ian Gurney just saying. So for my legacy word that song playing video games in the early morning, wake up and go to work with curls or nappy packets but no right? No, I'm make songs to them knit is committed live above the rim working for a Roman citizen facing sin and delights looking now when you doubt feel you get so light figured out the road to riches clothes and beaches. If that's what you think is the debt to donate. humidifying satisfying yourself stay diligent happiness is only led to by yourself it's as I say intelligent My name is Suzanne girls and my best friend when a man that you love you do direct them back on my naked folding clothes in a backpack I'm blaming other people struggle get out there don't get in homie be on yo hustle is one for you one which apparently and brain drain for people who get on the couch he likes you to find yourself being fake since they diligent happiness is only gonna by yourself stay diligent?

Dyalekt: 1:07:30

Thanks for listening to the brunch and budget podcast please feel free to rate us debate us hate us. Data's love infatuate us something that means you'd like us but Ryan's with eight. Say what's up? Tell us we make great stuff on Apple podcasts or really anywhere that lets you come at Reddit YouTube, I don't know just tell somebody like just knock on your neighbor's door. Subscribe. add us to your archives feel free to share any episodes that you think will help somebody out help us expand our circle so we can bring the real to more communities. If you got a song about money, financial systems or how you feel about either please send a link or mp3 to dialect dialect.com. Figuring out how to spell it is your only real obstacle. We love some informational intentional, influential songs from indie artists.