Beyond Brunch: Get Shameless About Your Money

Season 2 of the Brunch & Budget podcast will share 3 part arcs of big topics:
Part 1 is KNOW - what are the key things you need to understand about the topic, the bigger systemic picture around it, and where the racial wealth divide fits in
Part 2 is FEEL - how do you integrate the topic into your personal relationship with money and unpack the behaviors, reactions, and habits around it
Part 3 is DO - we take you through Brunch & Budget’s 5 Stages to Financial Legacy so you have clear action steps for what to do at every stage of your finances

Hosts - 

Pamela Capalad is a Certified Financial Planner™ and Accredited Financial Counselor™ and has been in financial services since 2008. She founded Brunch & Budget to help people who felt ashamed or embarrassed about money have a safe place to make real financial progress.  Pam has been featured in the Washington Post, Teen Vogue, Huffington Post, Vice Magazine, and was named New York Magazine’s Best financial planner of New York 2019.

Brian "Dyalekt" Kushner has been a hip-hop MC, theater maker, and educator for nearly 20 years. He’s the director of pedagogy at Pockets Change, where he uses hip-hop pedagogy to demystify personal finance and help students take control of their relationship with money. He is the recipients of Jump$tart’s 2022 Innovation in Financial Literacy award. He’s rocked (performed/taught/keynoted) everywhere from conferences like AFCPE and Prosperity Now, to stages like SXSW and the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, to classrooms that range from Yale to your cousin’s living room.

Pam & Dyalekt host the Brunch & Budget podcast and cofounded Brunch & Budget's group financial planning program for POC called See Change. They regularly keynote on how art, culture, and media are used to perpetuate racial wealth inequality.

For services check out our website 

https://brunchandbudget.com/seechange/
Follow us on Instagram @brunchandbudget

Thanks for listening to the Brunch and Budget podcast. Please feel free to rate us, debate us, hate us, on Apple podcasts or anywhere that lets you subscribe. Add us to your archives and feel free to share an episode you think can help somebody out. If you've got questions, corrections or a song about money financial systems or how you feel about either please send it to letsbrunch@brunchandbudget.com We'd love some indie artists. Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE to our newsletter by texting BRUNCH to 33777. 

Transcript

Dyalekt: 0:00

When you finally get to the top of the hill you're not going to chill there's knowledge to spill. Get boastful on social if not you will the fastest way to get over with money is to understand how we feel. This is the Brunch a Budget of podcasts with your hosts Pamela Capalad a certified financial planner and accredited financial counselor founder a Bunch of Budget, Pockets change and See Change, she's here to take the bite out of your budget

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 0:23

and your other host Dyalekt, director of pedagogy at Pocket Change and co founder of See Change he's here to change the way we talk about finance recorded

Dyalekt: 0:31

live is Shrum greenhouse studios deep in the heart of planet Brooklyn

Unknown: 0:43

and the Bronx

Dyalekt: 0:57

the way out to all my Joe to see fans in the house, Mr. Black yo, it was it was while we were talking about how like your songs get out of the black community and become for white folks. And it's not just like it happened with the internet social media ever. Because Casey and JoJo right you know, Casey and Joe

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:19

I do all my life right by for some months. Yeah. Could have done that song.

Dyalekt: 1:23

Yep, she like, softer Besides, they got rid of Devonte Mr. Black. Yeah, Casey and Jojo. I know puck was dead. So y'all like we don't care. No more will sell out. It's fine. I get it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:35

My goodness. Yes. I'm not as familiar with all that to say I don't know them as much as you welcome to brunch

Dyalekt: 1:41

and budget. The Josie rumors and innuendo podcast. Yes.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:47

That's that's the new thing. Now. That's what we're doing now. So welcome to brunch and budget. Actually, for the last time we have big news, y'all. We have big news,

Dyalekt: 1:56

not our last time talking to you. But last time under the brunch and budget title, we are rebranding

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 2:05

reap. I guess that's the official word for rebranding. We're changing the name of the show. We're changing a

Dyalekt: 2:11

lot of changing a lot of stuff. There's I don't know if y'all know. But it's been a time of change. upheaval, things are different. And we've got to be different. We've got to be malleable. One of the things that we've always talked to y'all about with this whole brunch and budget thing is that people are going to continue to push, and people are going to continue to try to take advantage of us when it comes to this money stuff. And we need to be able to be ahead of it. And to do that we have to be malleable and adaptable. And we're adapting here.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 2:38

Yeah. We are adapting here. I feel like that the thing that was working seven years ago, or maybe eight years ago, now, eight years ago, been a minute. Yeah, it's been a minute, we've been doing this since 2014. This podcast and brunch and budget started off as you know, literally me trading food for advice. And a big part of that was giving people a soft landing place and giving people a comfortable place to sit and talk about their money in a way where they didn't feel shame or embarrassment that they were already probably feeling and you know, breaking bread and finding common ground?

Dyalekt: 3:16

Yeah. I don't know if you've done this. Can you tell the bunch of budget origin story?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:21

I feel like that, you know, we're part of a larger artist community. And I realized quickly that I was the only finance person among all of our friends, right. And people started coming up to me at parties and just like asking me questions about savings and credit. And what's an IRA? You know,

Dyalekt: 3:39

that's a referral question.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 3:40

Yeah, that was a real real question. That's an IRA, an individual retirement account, if you are also not familiar, but so people were coming up to me and asking me questions about finance at parties. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, people don't have a place to go. And what really hit home for me was when a friend of ours came up to me, and we were sitting around a fire pit and a bonfire, if you will, yeah. We were sitting around a fire pit. And she said, Pam, I really need your help. I've never checked my credit score, but I'm so afraid to look. And I look back at her and I just said, Do you want to do it over brunch or something? And her whole body change. She looked back at me and I kid you not. She literally said, oh my god like a brunch and budget. That is where the name came from. That is where the idea came from. I met with her the next week, she made me brunch and we checked your credit score together. I was holding her hand while we checked it because she really had never looked. She heard all of these horrible things about credit scores. She felt like she had bad credit all of these things. And we looked and I remember she said, Oh my gosh, that wasn't so bad. And it's not so bad. And this fear and this anticipation, all wrapped around like shame and embarrassment around. I did this wrong. I made money mistakes. I'm bad at money, right? That all came out and it just Like, with the food and with the setting, and with someone really just like, sitting on your side of the table, there was something that shifted in her. And I was like, maybe there's something to this, I realized that a lot of our friends didn't have anyone to go to about finance. I couldn't take them on as clients. I was working in wealth management at the time. And, you know, we, we had to a client had to have at least $250,000 to invest with us to work with. I was like, I couldn't take myself as a client, you know. And so that's really how brunch and budget started, was I started trading food for advice. I sent out an email to a bunch of friends and I said, Hey, if you need financial advice, just make me a meal or buy me a meal. And we'll talk

Dyalekt: 5:42

yeah. And then alluding to the bonfire, tasty quiche from bonfire radio, she invited Pam on the TK in the am they did a live brunch, a budget and she was like, This is great. Pam, you should have your own show. And Pam said, No. No, thank you. Until she finally was convinced to say yes, but only she brought me along because she was like, you know, buttons and knobs in the studio. I was like, I guess

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 6:09

Yeah, you know, music and songs. And you can MC and so

Dyalekt: 6:13

I came in there thinking I would do the Ed McMahon thing and just be like, this is showing a drought. Y'all don't know who that is. I would just be like, yes, yes. Uh huh. That is correct. You got it. Uh huh. And then I realized I've been working as an educator, and artist and dealing with all this financial stuff all of this time. So then we started getting these things more and more together. The thing that happened was brunch itself kind of became a movement. Yeah, you know, it wasn't just about the brunch itself. It wasn't just about breaking bread that you're saying about the appreciation about that chillin thing, it was also about aspiration, like a declaration of like, sonification, if you will, to eat out with friends at non designated times

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 6:57

and overpay for eggs, because fuck it, I could do this to just

Dyalekt: 7:01

get some dry bread and spread some avocado on it. And like that's fine to have Bottomless mimosas and bottomless confidence. Yes. Oh, I love that. Preparing for tomorrow and have your money stuff together adulting or whatever. But also take care of yourself now.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 7:19

Yeah, brunch, I feel like was a reminder that you are also still a person, right? You're not just a collection of numbers and dollars and net worth and data. Yeah, you're not just a product to be sold other products too. And that is really what people came to brunch and budget for. I feel like that a lot of the work that I started doing was, it's interesting because I was trained in financial planning, right. I'm a certified financial planner, I work in wealth management, I know all of the strategies and how to analyze reports and blah, blah, and all that stuff. But as I started working with clients at brunch and budget, I realized that people didn't just need financial planning, a lot of us needed financial coaching, financial counseling, there was a lot of there was a lot of baggage and trauma around money, a lot of financial histories that people were taking with them that didn't just have to do with like their credit reports.

Dyalekt: 8:16

Well, it's not just tips and tricks, right? I think that's the thing that you found when you got into wealth management, because there's this idea that you were going to learn everything and then teach all the regular folks like, well, this is how rich people do it. So this is what we should do. And then you realize, well, that's not even available to y'all.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 8:30

Yeah, that's the thing is like, the strategies for rich people are really only for rich people. And a lot of the strategies, there are a lot of things that I took that I said, Oh, this can be translated. But the real thing that I learned is all of this wealth inequality, all of this systemic oppression, all of this racism is by design. You know, these systems were put in place purposely to keep people of color marginalized folks, you know, in their place in a lot of ways,

Dyalekt: 8:59

when you hear in recent times, and we've mentioned this about how the jobless rate needs to go up for the economy to do better.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 9:05

Oh, yes, the sacrifice ratio. We talked about that in our recession arc,

Dyalekt: 9:09

or we need homeless people. We need people for this system to work and us realizing, well, this stuff just doesn't work. And this all got more dire during the pandemic. It became heavier, it became realer because well, a little bit about the shock and change the trauma of all of us and we talk about this kind of stuff a lot. We're not psychologists, we've taken a couple of little therapy courses here and there, we got

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 9:36

a little we took an interpersonal neurobiology course for practitioners of color last year, the entire year. We're doing a study group this year. All this to say we are not therapists. I have my accredited financial counselor designation. And I think the thing that we learned in this Interpersonal Neurobiology course is how to make the address Money trauma and turn it into actionable steps to well,

Dyalekt: 10:03

and how that is the big thing that we're trying to do here is the secret. The tip, the trick is your relationship with money. I know it's really annoying. If you ever listened to a relationship podcast, and when we were like, Oh, we're a couple assistant relationship podcasts. And every single one was like, you gotta communicate, we're like, oh, let's listen to this kind of couple, Oh, you gotta gotta communicate, let's have a PLC, whoa, you gotta communicate,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 10:27

here's a different way to communicate, how about this way to communicate, here's a more specific way to communicate, I'm saying, it's all this

Dyalekt: 10:33

with us. And the money thing, the the secret is, we got to deal with our relationship with money, we got to be okay with our relationship with money, yo, there is inequality out there. And we need to be aware of that. And we talk about that stuff, hey, there are tips. And there are tricks. And there are hacks, and there are ways that you can jump over. And we can talk about that. But none of that matters. Until we heal our relationship with money. For practical purposes, it doesn't matter because you can't become consistent with this until you get a base level.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 11:05

Yeah, and you know, it's interesting, because we've been saying this for the past seven, eight years. But I feel like the last two, three years in particular, with a pandemic, it started really becoming something that I feel like we've embodied in ourselves, too, right? I feel like that going through this course, the interpersonal neurobiology course. And also, you know, going through therapy ourselves, and also having money dates and talking to each other, in a very, not formal setting, but like scheduled, setting about our money, right. And thinking about like, all of the feelings that come with that, and talking about the feelings that come with that. Your relationship with money is really not just the start, I used to say like, oh, we always start with money, personalities, you always have to know. But your relationship with money and how you feel and think about money affects all of your money decisions, for better or for worse. And if you feel out of control in your relationship with money, that is how your money is going to feel.

Dyalekt: 12:04

Yeah, you know, what we have to do in this space now is show more of a vulnerability. And that's because as an educator, I've often talked about brave spaces and safe spaces and how you know, it's really hard to have a safe space, we got to have bravery, get this brave space work together and all that, but the pandemic especially, and the times after that have exposed how we don't have spaces that are safe, or spaces where we have a cultivated community to make things brave. Right now, people are fractured, we are tired. And it's incumbent on us to be vulnerable in spaces where there isn't any safety. And that's scary. And that's tough. And we would rather fall on our old, more capitalistic old tendencies. And we've often talked about how we fall back on those because they're low hanging fruit because they're easier to do.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 13:06

Well, it's the system is built for it, right. And the system is built for a path for people to be a winner. Not everyone. But like you could be one of the lucky few who's a winner.

Dyalekt: 13:20

Yeah, that's a thing. You you'd be a cog in the wheel for the lottery. And that's what's been happening to us, especially after the whole 2020 reckoning stuff. I don't know if y'all got it, but we got it. In 2020. We got really popular a lot of heads were reaching out to us and saying, Hey, what do we do? How do we do this? And then POC stuff like, Hey, how can you make this for these people who

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 13:43

are doing it for years, like, you know, we were getting applauded, we were getting allotted. We were getting phone calls awards, like people just like praising our programs and our content and all of this stuff.

Dyalekt: 13:55

those of y'all who are in the justice, these spaces. I don't know if y'all remember in 2020, when all your friends who didn't really ride with what you do started wanting to know about it, wanting to bring you into their company to do some Dei. And then somewhere in the middle of 2021. Not only did they give up on that there was a backlash to it. And what happened is, again, we got blamed, right? It was us again, it used to be the avocado toast like we were talking you were alluding to before about like having the avocado toast and having brunch. It's something that we have so that we can feel powerful, but it's because people were telling us that we were wrong, that we were stupid and that we were alone for wanting to have these things. There were articles there were best selling books about these kids today. I haven't brunch instead of saving for their future. That was the way that they blamed us for all the inequality going on. And now they say Well, it's because you're woke. It's because you know about inequality. It's because you dare to not work 12 hours on an eight hour shift. We got an article in front of us from the Wall Street The journal that literally starts with Where Have All the go getters gone? Who were to read that. We should do that as a witness.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 15:11

There we go. You're getting a couple medley today. Now, but that's the thing that the the flip happened so fast, right? I feel like that in 2020, you're getting praised by the middle of 2021. People like, Wait, why are you leaving me out? I thought you were inclusive. You're leaving me out of this, you know, and there was a lot of that backlash that you were saying, uh, we literally lost gigs, because of those critical race theory policies that got passed. Yeah,

Dyalekt: 15:41

we bring in the CRT thing. With pockets change. We were doing teacher trainings in Tennessee, and Kentucky, we worked with like over 1000 teachers, and we had a great time, everyone's really into what we did. And then we spoke to one of the educators are going to talk the organization, I want to get other folks in trouble. And they were like, hey, you know, we really loved you, but we can't have you back. Because what you do falls under this law. And we're concerned, we just we don't want to get in trouble. So we're not going to mess with it. I mean, even personal friends who reached out to be like, Hey, can you come do the DEI thing? Those follow ups never happen? We didn't have the folks have in our back anymore. And we have the people on our back. Where this comes from is a clinical place. Where are we gonna get a little less money. I remember there was this book in 2007 Shock Doctrine, the rise of disaster capitalism by Naomi Klein. And she basically posited this idea that when natural disasters happen, or when manmade disasters happen, governments and corporations and people in power, use the stress the trauma of the people, the collective stress and trauma of everyone to pull the wool over people's eyes, when we had 911. All of the laws that got y'all who were around for that deal. Remember all the laws that got passed, that just never really went away, you still got to take your shoes off on an airplane. for over 20 years, they have completely changed the way that we fly. They passed the Patriot Act and all sorts of unpopular uncool laws. And what Naomi Klein did in her book is she looked through the history of these kinds of disasters and how whenever they happen, whether it was a war that was on purpose, whether it was like a big tsunami or something I remember, there was something about like a big tsunami in Japan and how unpopular policies were passed after that, how this is used. And y'all know, when you're tired, when you're worn out, when you're overworked, when you're stressed when a family member is sick, you're gonna Yeah, sure, you're not going to pay as much attention. You can't, you can't pay as much. And she actually has written some more about shock doctrine and the pandemic and has been doing a lot of writing and talking about what's been going on lately, because we are in another place where we have had a global level of stress of trauma, global

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 18:08

and extended stress to where things were getting passed so fast. And it was a mix of it was so many compromises, right? When you think about the Cares Act, and you think about how much money the average American got versus how much money corporations got. And you see that like, you know, each American got what, like a $1,200, check, and corporations got a $4 trillion bailout.

Dyalekt: 18:31

This is where the shame comes in. And this is where shame is, financially literally, really, really impactful. And the shame comes in, by the way that were blamed for all of this kind of stuff. Not only was it the backlash, were like, Oh, we don't want to hire people because CRT and all this, but it's your fault that this stuff is happening. You were doing this, we had a revival of the whole Chicago black on black crime. And then it became old woke people were because that's their new word for the N word for folks, which like they're rebranding everything right now, which is why we all gotta be do the

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 19:08

reveal how to rebrand? Well, and the other thing too, I think about is like, you know, we see how much the stimulus checks were for individuals versus how much the how much the corporation's got, that's what I want and inflation has been blamed on all those stimulus checks all those unemployment checks all of these government tax breaks for you know, the average taxpayer. That's why there's inflation remember

Dyalekt: 19:34

those signs outside of businesses that says nobody wants to work anymore, when the reality is that goods were getting more expensive. The thing about all of this, and Dr. Klein goes into this and this is stuff that we've talked about a lot is that blame and shame is the way that people in power get out of their stuff.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 19:54

Today's episode is sponsored by us French and budget, French and budget is not Just a podcast. It's a financial planning practice with a team of certified financial planners and accredited financial counselors, ready to work with people who need a safe space to talk about your finances. Many of our clients come to us because someone or something made them feel bad about their money. We are the antidote to that. We do all our financial planning and coaching through a racial wealth equity lens, and we'll use our very own five stages to financial legacy to show you how far you've come and where you're headed. go to brunch and budget.com to learn more.

Dyalekt: 20:33

We mentioned the Wall Street article but just want

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 20:36

to read this go ahead. Yeah. Reads read some of the stuff I just want to read this now. Mocking voice with Yes, well, the the the title is amazing. Your coworkers are less ambitious bosses adjust to the new order. First of all, your coworkers are less ambitious. Maybe not you you're probably still like reading this late at night or I love the weekends. Oh, and the opening line is where have all the go getters gone at law firm Nixon Peabody LLP associates have started saying no to working weekends, prompting partners to ask more people to complete time sensitive work. TSG insurance in Texas has struggled to filled promotions. And often bosses have to coax staffers to apply and main base marketing company pulp and wire plants is shut down for two weeks next year. Now that staffers are taking more vacation than they used to. This is all first of all framed as bad things. No to working on weekends, no to promotions and no to not taking their vacation. Like what sorry, we're using our benefits and also not working beyond the hours that we're getting paid for Nixon Peabody

Dyalekt: 21:49

sound like a Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 21:51

It's true. Oh, this is the bestest quote from the the president of the ED digital, the passion that we used to see in work is lower now. And you find it in fewer people, at least in the last two years. So what they started doing this company based in Columbus, Ohio started hiring people in Canada and India, where she said it's easier to find talent who will go above and beyond

Dyalekt: 22:19

will do stuff that's not

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 22:21

who will do stuff that is not that they're not getting paid for basically. Oh, and this is the best since the onset of the pandemic, several employees have asked for more pay when managers ask that they do more work. She says it was not like before COVID at all.

Dyalekt: 22:35

Wow.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 22:37

Oh my god, I'm just like, this is mind blowing to me. And you know, there was this whole thing about quiet quitting. Quiet quitting,

Dyalekt: 22:45

which he missed quiet quitting. It wasn't quitting. It was just not doing all the other stuff.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 22:50

Yeah, it was just not go doing extra. It was saying no to working on weekends, it was taking your vacation because you you were given that as a benefit. Right. It was saying no to working 90 hours a week. And then there's this whole thing in here. What's so interesting about this article is you know, so I'm actually the the Goldman Sachs first year analyst actually complained that they were working an average of 95 hours a week and the job right. Like when did they sleep 95 hours a week first year analyst not

Dyalekt: 23:25

even a Goldman Sachs is worth that. Right, that's what they sell. Right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 23:35

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Goldman. So Goldman responded saying they were hired additional bankers and strictly enforced boundaries around working hours. Well, that's the thing that's so interesting about all of this, right is to maximize profits, employers used whatever lip service and like non monetary incentives they could to get workers or not even incentives, like peer pressure, right? To get workers to say like, yes to weekends, and, you know, answering emails on vacation and all of these things. And really, what they just needed to do was hire more people and they didn't want to Well,

Dyalekt: 24:12

no, because they want to stretch, you know, we were taught to take our passion and make it happen. You know, and there was this idea, this assumption, this is the funny thing. I think about this, because I think that they're genuinely surprised, because there is this very colonial to be specific assumption that the American Dream is satisfying a boss.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 24:37

Yes, no, this is so what's interesting, ya know, there's the next part of this is at Nixon Peabody, the aforementioned law firm, a chief executive and managing partner there said, when I was an associate if someone called me on vacation, I was just happy people were continuing to call me. But then he later said, I don't know if that's the right mindset. I was just so appeals getting I was happy but that's the thing, right? That's what you were saying about just like the American Dream is having a boss tell you you're doing a good job. And people took that to an extreme because it just got so competitive right?

Dyalekt: 25:13

Nixon PD Nixon Peabody, I'll see you in the street we given you a wedgie.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 25:20

Oh, my gosh. And his big complaint. He goes on to say that, like, you know, so many associates are saying no to working on the weekends that I have to ask multiple associates to see if someone will do it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't usually read entire articles out loud. But this is just so amazingly baffling and ridiculous. And I noticed the Wall Street Journal,

Dyalekt: 25:42

you remember? Well, to shout out the brunch at Budds is a past we used to do this. When we were first doing this, if y'all Listen, like our old old episodes, we would pull up some ostensibly find financial article that really has a lot of inequality, a lot of weird racial stuff, a lot of real paternalistic stuff, and just go through it and make fun of it. So this is actually a call back, like a clip show. There you go. Yeah, we

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 26:09

do that. Oh, my gosh, yes. This is a call back. This is a call back because this article in particular, is just so heinous in terms of how they framed all of this, right, even the opening line of like, Where have all the go getters gone? You mean? Where have all the people who have been overworked, overwhelmed, like underpaid, like companies committing wage theft on their employees, where they go where all the people who are actually fine with that they're frickin gone?

Dyalekt: 26:37

Well, to talk about the whole Naomi Klein collective trauma stuff. Back in Europe, where Feudalism was doing its thing, you know, what really caused the end of feudalism? Excuse me, historians, I'm gonna butcher this and paraphrase, and only say, like, small quick parts really quickly, because that's not what our show is about. But in feudalism, there was the plague. And there were all these wars. And what happened was, the workers were mostly dead, because, you know, rich people sitting up in their castles, letting all the poor people, you know, deal with all the awful stuff. And after the plague was over, there weren't enough bodies. So they started, the workers had power. Yeah, they started collectively organizing. And they were like, Hey, you got to actually take care of us. And what happened instead of taking care of the workers out in England, out in Ireland, out in France, out in Portugal, are you getting from the countries I mentioned, they just went to Africa? Yep. They went to Asia, and they realized people were just going to take your stuff instead of dealing with our own stuff. You know, people talk about the lifetime of trauma, the generations of trauma that Europeans felt that they haven't dealt with, when we look at a lot of the racial animus we have in the States today, a lot of that has to do with that kind of trauma. And they managed to beat them in the herd and take it all over the world. And basically, now they're doing another small version of that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 28:04

Yeah. I yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's a small version, I think it's a pretty,

Dyalekt: 28:11

I guess it's done as foundational

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 28:13

as Yes, it is built on the foundation of what you just it is built on the foundation of white supremacy standing

Dyalekt: 28:19

on the shoulders of giant douche is

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 28:21

Yes, exactly. Is this shit, right is, Hey, your only goal in life is work and money and working for a boss. And that is how you get your praise. That is how you you know, decide what's good and bad for you. All of these things are just like, so ingrained and work has become such a part of someone's personality. I mean, you know, we one of the things that I love about the next generation is when people ask you, what is your dream job? Because all of us got asset shaders kids, right? What is your dream job? What do you want to be when you grew up? And they meant What job do you want to have when you grew up? Not what do you want to be when you grow up? And Gen Z has been saying I do not dream of labor. I don't have a fucking dream job

Dyalekt: 29:05

when any one of our generation or anyone of any previous generation would say that it was left that and it was sought as a lack of ambition. It's ill what you said about the goal, money and satisfying your employer's being the goal. Yep. I grew up with that. You grew up with that. That's the whole thing. It's not about what you want. Right? It's going into a job interview. I when we talk with kids, I always got to tell them Yo, you can negotiate with McDonald's. And I'll have a teacher in the class you it was holding them down. Be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe not for your first job. Don't do that. That's happened multiple times. Stay in the cut. Keep your head down. Keep your head down. Just take on the extra work. take on the burden, even as it's breaking your back so they can continue giving you that pittance of a paycheck. Yeah, yeah. When the real is that person who was taught to negotiate even at that McDonald's job, that rich kid who decides I want to work at McDonald's for whatever reason, they decided, that's the kid who goes in there and does negotiate the salary. Yeah. And maybe they don't get it because they're like, Hey, we're McDonald's franchise, we don't have that much loot. But that's the kid who ends up being the manager. Because that is, what a go getter actually is. They go get the thing they want, which includes compensation, which includes compensation, get your money,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 30:31

ya know, there's this great to continue into the article. I'm Mary, I don't know how to say her last name. This is a problem with reading articles out loud. So a structural engineer in Virginia Beach, used to say yes to over time to be able to meet deadlines. And then she started watching tick talks about having a healthy work life balance way to go tick tock. And she realized that she shouldn't actually work these extra hours. She asked for a raise for the first time in three years. And she said, until then, I will make more of an effort to act my wage. And Hydros love that array. Remember that act my way age? Yes. Because also I know, I was taught this I was taught in this in my first job was going above and beyond meant, like, you know, doing your job as if you're actually doing the next job, write the promotion after you doing the work of the next person so that someone would look at you and say, Oh, well, you deserve a promotion for all this work you've been doing? You're not supposed to ask, right?

Dyalekt: 31:43

This is something that's curated by American society. I've talked a lot about how sports is something that in America, we're uniquely connected to in ways that people in other countries are. And it's because we see sports as a model for how everyone does their thing. And in sports, keeping your head down and working hard pays off. If you are a backup, and you start doing the starter's job, guess what, you don't get to be a starter, you don't get to be a champion, you will be praised. They'll love your work ethic. The thing that you are trying to do is satisfy the owners and your fans. And your only goal is doing that it's it's actually frowned on for you to pad your old stats, scoring titles go for any of those things. You're here for the team and in the place where everybody's a millionaire. And everybody's doing their dream job. Also, yeah, that's gonna happen. But in other places where people are doing it just for now job, or just because I got two jobs. I remember having to coach students through Well, you can't just say, I am applying for this job because I need the money, that McDonald's job. There are people out. There's someone out there who absolutely loves working at McDonald's. And it's a fun thing to them. But the vast majority of people are like, I don't want to you know, you know, dim your light people who love doing that. But the vast majority of us when we're working those retail jobs, so fast food job or any job, many jobs we're doing because we need to pay our bills. We're doing it because we need to take care of ourselves.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 33:18

Why is that? Not an okay reason to apply for a job?

Dyalekt: 33:22

Because you got to go above and beyond? Because people want more? Hey, let's be a little fair to the business owners here. Yes. As a business owner, you're right. Yeah, we're all business owners here. Right? Yeah, yeah. had to deal with that. You've looked at hiring and been like, Well, I kind of need two people for this job. But I can only afford one. Or if I pay for this one person. Oh, man. paying them for the nice health insurance is going to really be tough. Yeah, I understand y'all. This is one of the things I will say they call it the petite bourgeoisie, like the people who aren't like the big time capitalists, but like the small business owners, we have to make these tough decisions. That bump against humanity. Yeah. We have to ask ourselves the real hard questions of like, well, do I want to make it easier for my business to get by so I can have a break? Or do I want to pay somebody enough so that they can take care of themselves? Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 34:18

that is the that is the big question that we ask ourselves every day. And it

Dyalekt: 34:23

sounds like an easy answer for all y'all. No matter which side of the debate you're on until you're actually looking at that cash flow.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 34:30

Yep. Yep. You're looking at that cashflow, and you're trying to figure out how to make it work, right. So yeah,

Dyalekt: 34:38

stuff is bad. It's bad and people are flipping it up. You know, the marketing arm of oppression has always been solid. They've always been really good. We've talked a lot about how artists often uphold the racial wealth divide white supremacy, income inequality, all of these Even by accident, by just doing what we're told to do, when art comes out about was in the 80s. In the 90s, there was all of this stuff about, you don't want to swipe your card, you almost swipe your card and be out of money, right? You'd be on a date, you swipe your card, you're out of money, everybody's looking at you the dates like, huh, and now you're broke, and it's sad and you're a loser, then overdraft protection comes out. No, overdraft protection is wack. But you were primed. You didn't want to be embarrassed. You don't want to be scared. So you let yourself be taken advantage of. Yep. And all these kinds of ways have been adding up. And we've reached a breaking point. So they've needed to flip their game up. We need to be as proactive. This is why we need to get shameless. We've been a little shy about what the rebranding is. We did an episode about this a while back, we did a show called Get shameless. We did a workshop live for people. And we've been sharing this idea of getting shameless. And what's funny is the term shameless itself is mostly used in like, dangerous, sexy, kind of kind of

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 36:04

the show shameless or like negative like, Oh, she's so shameless,

Dyalekt: 36:08

right? This this thing, you should be humble. But all of this humble stuff has kept us from getting the things that we really want. And we need to be shameless, in the sense of letting go of shame. I don't know if you want to be the billionaire that takes over the world. I don't know, if you want to be the hero that knocks down capitalism. I don't care. I mean, I care. But that's not the important thing. The important thing is you finding the thing in your heart that allows you to let go of the shame that keeps you from doing anything that matters to you. The shame that tells you you should the shame that tells you you're wrong, the shame that tells you you're not enough, the shame that tells you that you don't have enough, and that everybody around you hate you because they're not putting you on a pedestal.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 36:53

Yeah, one thing that this article talks about that I think is interesting, too, is that the promotions thing, right that we mentioned at the beginning, where people are not trying to climb the corporate ladder, and they're not trying to go up. and up and up is you know, at this insurance company, these days, many workers are contented doing the same jobs, they've done said the insurance company, the pay is comfortable, the company is stable. And many workers want to make time for friends and activities. That's okay. But you have to have people, we constantly look for people who have drive that we feel like we can promote to higher paying jobs in the organization. And I wanted to bring this up in the context of what you said, because I feel like that we have been taught to climb this like invisible corporate ladder to always be ambitious to always want the promotion, and that you shouldn't be ashamed if you don't want it right.

Dyalekt: 37:43

We've been taught that that's what ambition is. Yes,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 37:47

exactly. The ambition, again, is tied to work and productivity, and your ability to produce within capitalism. And I feel like that one thing that these employees are being shameless about is saying, I have enough money, I'm fine. The job is stable, my work is good. I can hang on the weekends, I can go and be with my friends and my family. And like do my job, right? This job is not my life. It's an aspect of my life that allows me to do other things. And there's a shamelessness in that. And the structure that we've built has set it up also, again, as business owners, for business owners to also be screwed, right? Like nobody wins in this scenario, except for the people who are just like actively screwing everyone, right? Because this business owner, I don't know who they are, but what they bring up is very true within the structure that they have been rewarded for. Right?

Dyalekt: 38:40

Yeah, I mean, the whole insurance company thing makes me think of like, Y'all remember The Incredibles? Were the the superhero guy the outlawed superheroes? And then he became the insurance dude. Oh, yeah. To do with all the will do and screw over the little old lady who was trying to do their thing? Yep. This is like a 20 year old movie. And that was the expectation. And that was something we just accepted. That was something a literal, fictional superhero who could fly

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 39:12

and yeah, I was just like, yep, we just, I just have to do this. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that when it comes to being shameless, the things that we have been taught around shame, our shame is basically denying yourself of what you actually want to the point where you don't even know what you want any more.

Dyalekt: 39:32

Shame is when you have replaced your own dreams, goals and morals, with advertisements with catchphrases

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 39:42

with sales with

Dyalekt: 39:43

sales. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 39:44

we talked about sales a lot in the last episode, and it's something that really I sit with a lot. I sit with it all the time because I still catch myself getting swayed by a sale for something that I don't even want.

Dyalekt: 39:58

I mean, to me, it's all So kind of how in the 2000s, how the popular distraction form of music, gangsta rap morphed into CEO rap. Right? There was this place where the, you know, people were being shameless about how the neighborhood I come from is rough. And I have to do these things I got to do to survive and actually been kind of vulnerable and real and interesting. And that turned into, I feel like, this is probably not the actual crux, but I'm thinking of, you know, because I want to give a what, what, to all of the businesses out there and by what what, you know, that's just a radio edit, I think of the opening line. Fuck that, how are we gonna get around on your bus pass? Right? There was this shame that was seeded into what everyone was doing. If they weren't a CEO, I remember your drug dealer rappers started flipping this idea of being a hustler, versus being a customer and I know that it rhymes. So people love, you know, a little symmetry on that. But there was this shame in being like you are someone who purchases products, and therefore you are beneath me, because I am this big, nebulous CEO who may be does unethical things. But I have status. Yeah. Because I have achievement. I have money. And money is my goal.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 41:22

Money is my goal. Money is the goal and not the means. And the thing. The thing that I've been really trying to flesh out in all of this, as we think about shamelessness, as we think about money is that money isn't natural. Right? Money represents an exchange of energy between two people, you're, you're receiving a service, you're buying a product, whatever that is, right? Money is kind of that intermediary that middleman. But it is not something that we understand intrinsically or understand our body. Right? It's something that is all in our head. It's something that it all comes from our brains. And so the thing about money and making it the goal or having a be the goal is you turn off all the other parts of you, that also are informing you in terms of what your values are, and what your wants are and what your needs are. And so when it comes to putting money first, and thinking about money as the ultimate goal, then you easily get lost in terms of what you actually want and what you actually need.

Dyalekt: 42:29

Oh, tell me about how that's worked with clients. I mean, that's worked with the people that you've been working with, and how is that changing?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 42:36

Yeah, the thing that I feel like when I tell clients like, hey, like, first of all, like, money isn't natural, you shouldn't just understand it by a certain age, right? It's not something that like, has any like, even intrinsic value really, right? It's like the thing that gets you to the thing that you want. There's like this sense of like, it did depends on the client, I would say, but there's a mix of like relief, and also like confusion, right of like, okay, so like, right money isn't natural. I shouldn't know. Or I shouldn't just like automatically understand money by a certain age right?

Dyalekt: 43:12

Can I get hippie difficult on y'all? Yeah, hippie difficult because while money is representative of an exchange of energy, it's not energy. It's not energy. It's not energy

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 43:23

represents it right? It's some fucking metaphor. It money is a metaphor.

Dyalekt: 43:28

That's a really great way to describe it. Because I don't know about y'all, but I've seen the gurus out there. I've seen the holistic folks and they all start talking about the exchange of money and how money's the energy and money is currency from sway even has right the place where you put the trash shouldn't be where your money is, because nothing to do with nothing. That's all simply a distraction from the fact that money is not a real thing that we've put something on Yeah. Today's episode is sponsored by us buckets change at pockets change we offer in person and virtual workshops for students from grade school to grad school professional development for educators and administrators and jams for the whole family to learn, unlearn, and unpack. We use Hip Hop pedagogy in the classroom to meet students where they're at and hiphop performance in the communities to dispel myths and create new common sense around money. For some free resources. Go to pocket change.com/toolkit and sign up for our newsletter. Let's change the way we talk about finance. One of the things that I want to do as we're transitioning into the get stainless show that we'll be doing in our next season is letting go of a little of this. I don't know if we're clumpiness in our chest.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 44:41

Yes, that's a really great way to put it because I think that you know, with brunch and budget, the journey through brunch and budget when I if I'm going to be doing a little bit of reflecting right now, right? Is, at least for me, like one like learning About the systems and putting it into the context of like, how they have oppressed people of color. And there is a lot of doom and gloom in there. And I feel like that we sat in a lot of that and had to unpack a lot of that I did particularly, to really understand and get to where we are now. Right. And so we spent a lot of time talking about this really hard stuff. And just like and just like pulling the wool over my own eyes, and hopefully other people's eyes to have always just been like, why is it so hard for me? Why is it so hard for me? Why am I like working twice as hard to get half as much right?

Dyalekt: 45:39

I want y'all to feel free to be hard working people. I like the stuff that I do. I care about my work, my creative work, my education work and stuff that we do here. I want to work twice as hard. But I want to work twice as hard to get twice as much. And I want you all to do that too.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 45:54

Yes. work twice as hard to get twice as much. That sounds fun. Right? Yeah. Thank you. I want that too. I love that.

Dyalekt: 46:02

You want to get half as much work half as hard. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 46:05

exactly. Don't work on weekends. It's all good. No, but the the thing about brunch and budget, and like at least my journey through it, thinking back on it, it really feels like I personally spent a lot of time learning how these systems work getting riled up getting angry about it. And in this last year, taking this Interpersonal Neurobiology course, really like understanding the coaching and counselling side of things and also like, learning a lot of things the hard way myself about how to grow a business and grow a company. And that feels like a whole episode in and of itself. But like learning about that made me realize like, Okay, we know all of this now, right? We've learned all of this. So how do we transform despite it? How do we, how do we continue to live our lives within the system and do it with more joy, and do with more compassion, do with more rest it with a more understanding of, yes, these systems exist, all of this shit is gonna be horrible. We saw this through the pandemic, this collective huge thing that like it was, I don't want to say it was nobody's fault. But it was not our fault. In the same way that they have blamed us for other things with personal responsibility. And I feel like that get shameless for me, is really about saying, fuck it, I'm still going to be happy, I'm still going to be joyful, I'm still going to take care of myself.

Dyalekt: 47:31

You know, being shameless is a good idea. Because it's worked for the rich folks. When corporations are rich, private individuals, your politicians with influence and power, when they state their intentions, they're, they're lauded for it. Yeah, they get props, they get awards, we're told to hide our intentions for fear that there'll be ridiculed or stolen. Or shameless thing. It feels risky. It does. Why is it worth it?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 48:05

Yeah. Well, I want to talk about the risk side first, because you know, when we were talking about brunch and budget earlier, it was about giving people a safe, soft landing place, right to say, okay, good, I can relax, I can talk about my money. And being shameless is putting yourself out there, saying, This is what I want at the risk of not just having someone say, Well, you can't have it. But you potentially like getting harmed because you put that out there. Right? It is risky to be like I am shameless about this, I am going to tell people what my salary is, I'm going to tell people how much debt I have. I'm going to tell people how much money I have in savings. I'm going to talk about my fears around money. I'm going to talk about the arguments that I've had with my partner when it comes to our bills, right? Why

Dyalekt: 48:52

it's risky. Why? Because lots of people have been taught to take advantage of those things. That when you show some vulnerability, to take vulnerability as weakness, one thing to take kindness for weakness, it's another thing that I think it's bananas to take vulnerability as weakness and attempt to take advantage of it. Yeah, we've seen plenty of that, especially after the pandemic where everyone kind of feels like they're scrambling. And again, the lowest hanging fruit is the capitalism thing. So you may be asking, Is shamelessness anti capitalist? kinda, sorta, but it also doesn't matter. being shameless about your money and about your relationship with money, doesn't mean that you're a winner or loser. What this is is giving you the opportunity to have the life that you want. Capitalism is that monster that you can't ignore? Like, I don't know if you were familiar with Frederick Kruger. Guest Star of the nightmare on my street song crew with DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. Ha ha I'm your DJ no Princey bye In the first movie he was in they they think they killed him by not believing in Him, they just turned their back on him, right. And people say that a lot, you know, I mean, the hippie dippie spaces, I moved to New York in the underground hip hop piece. Che, it's not about the money, like, you know, I have friends and I probably been on songs where we literally say, we care about other stuff more than money. And all of this stuff was again, subterfuge, for us to not deal with our relationships with money. Yeah. When we're actually dealing with our relationships with money, we have to deal with capitalism, we're gonna have to deal with it. If it goes away, then we have to deal with whatever system, if we want to be the architects of its destruction, cool, even then you're still dealing with it. There is no way to live in this world and to do this stuff unless you just go off to live in the woods by yourself, which you're free to do. But if you're here, we have to deal with capitalism. We may not be able to lead the system, but we can make sure that it doesn't completely control our life.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 51:02

Yeah, I mean, and that's why it's worth it right. And I feel like a big part of having it not control our life is figuring out for yourself what it means to let go of the shame to let go of the embarrassment to let go of hiding. You know, I feel like that there's so much that capitalism teaches us very insidiously, about how we should hide from our community. We should hide things from our community, we should hide. We should, we should hide our financial mistakes, we should hide our financial success, we should everything right,

Dyalekt: 51:36

we should hide that little belly fat, to hide all of the imperfections. Because we can only be of Worth can only be loved. Because you know, this has gone we've done episodes where we've talked about how this bleeds into your romantic and social life as well. If you've got all of this stuff together, yeah. Yeah, we talk a lot about money, personalities, and how our money personalities are shaped by our traumas, and they're shaped by our pains. Can we talk a little bit because I feel like we're getting long in the tooth on this part. I want to I want to move on a little bit about what our money personalities are like, when we're able to get shameless. So if you're not familiar with our money, personalities, you can go to brunch and budget.com/personality or pockets change.com/quiz for the youngins, and take our two question test. If you are a complicated or you answered a for one and eight for two. Pam, you're complicated. What is shameless look like?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 52:29

So shameless, are complicated. So we actually, it's funny, because I remember we were talking about this and you were like, it was easy to do shame and money personalities. But what does shamelessness look like? And so, you know, we actually have written out detailed descriptions of money, personalities, and complicated is at their best, at their most shameless. I have a good balance between saving regularly and splurging. I'm able to let go of some control over my finances and delegate responsibilities. I'm able to let go of financial tasks that are not actually a priority. I'm clear on my goals and how much enough is for me, I'm content with good enough, instead of seeking the perfect solution. I'm spending money on things I want and like, as well as making practical purchases.

Dyalekt: 53:20

So it sounds like in practical life where we could translate a little bit that you're spending two weeks planning that big vacation, but you're not spending five hours to buy a toaster. Yeah, exactly. You allow yourself to indulge in the habits and tendencies that you enjoy about money without being in panic mode.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 53:40

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is, there's a lot of things about being complicated that I like and that I actually enjoy. But when I feel stressed when I feel like there's not enough when I feel like I'm not doing enough, then that overwhelm takes over and I do spend five hours searching for the perfect toaster because it's something that I can focus on so I don't have to think about something that's harder. It's a thing you can achieve that achieve Yep, exactly. But it doesn't actually do anything for you. That toaster may just sit in the basement cuz

Dyalekt: 54:12

you already had a toaster you just got this one because it was the sale one.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 54:15

Mm hmm.

Dyalekt: 54:16

What about our contemplate errs? That's a be on the list.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 54:20

Yeah. So for contemplate is contemplate is at their best or at their most shameless. I've automated as much as I can, so I truly don't have to think about it. I can be spontaneous because I know I can afford it. I figured out how why I wanted to change my habits and I did. I know how to maintain calm in the midst of chaos and can be that anchor for other people. I'm a great problem solver and I'm using the skills to move my finances forward and I can truly let go and make space in my brain for other things. Oh

Dyalekt: 54:50

man, it sounds so impactful for contemplate errs, because contemplate errs, have very active brains that kind of glitch out when it comes to finances. And it sounds like a This situation when we're being shameless about our finances our contemplate errs can not have to glitch not have to be concerned so much about the things hanging over your head because they're none of their well one of the reasons why this isn't just a contemplator thing but I think contemplate errs have it kind of the worst maybe money monks a little bit too. Man, you hate calling customer service contemplado I don't want to call customer service and have to deal with that stuff, because they're gonna treat you terribly. I remember when my bank got bought by another bank. And they did some messed up stuff, put my account in the negative they eventually got a lawsuit and I got my $7 you know, big check class action lawsuit. Yeah, you know, but when I went there to talk to him about it, I got lectured by the banker know better and you signed the contract, and I was gonna even sell the contract, but y'all they can avoid, or they can deal with the customer service reps and deal with these kinds of people, if they don't have the expectation that they're gonna be offered to them.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 55:59

Exactly, yeah. Yeah. If there's this idea of like, Oh, I'm talking to a human who also thinks I'm a human, right and or

Dyalekt: 56:08

knowing that we can't decide on what other people are gonna decide, not caring how they're doing, or how they're going to treat you. And not allowing that to be the judgment of what your worth is. Because I think that's what it is, is you call and maybe you even call twice, and they treat you poorly. And you're like, I'm just just not gonna call him.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 56:26

I'm not gonna call anymore. I feel dumb. I felt dumb for calling in the first place. Why did I waste my time? I could have been thinking about something else. Yeah,

Dyalekt: 56:34

they get to think about something else. So talking about thinking about something else. How about be a that's the paper chasers?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 56:39

Yes. Paper chasers at your most shameless, I'm thinking 10 steps ahead, not just two steps, I'm tuned into the best opportunities for me, not just all opportunities and can focus my energy into those things. I turned down gigs that don't fit my schedule or values, I regularly take a step back to see the long term slash big picture and make decisions from this vantage point. I am saving money as often as I making it. And my savings is like another stream of income I can tap into when I need it.

Dyalekt: 57:09

You get to be a a nutty professor. Yeah, hey, you know, the old movie, not just that one. But like, there's the there was that genre of movies about some inventor, who wasn't really making a lot of money, but they were making a lot of stuff, they would always have some Rube Goldberg machine that would make the toast and the eggs and all that I think Honey, I Shrunk the Kids did any Chitty Bang, bang, I was gonna say a lot of like, you're like, way older films, that was like a whole thing. And that's a, that's a character doesn't really exist anymore. Because there is no use for that Rube Goldberg, all of that thought and creativity to go into something that simple. Instead, we're like, well, we want to quickly simplify these difficult things.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 57:51

We have to be efficient to pick the best thing. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can let go of that, and allow yourself to be creative and be thinking 10 steps ahead, then that's your most shameless yo

Dyalekt: 58:03

paper chasers. It's so interesting how they're kind of aligned in that, like, they're thought of as the greedy, capitalistic, you know, we're going to take advantage of people, but in their natural state. Paper chasers are problem solvers. Yeah, those are the ones who see that there's something out there that just doesn't exist, or they're not doing it right. Or they're not doing it from some kind of angle, and you're like, I can feel that I can take care of those people. It's beautiful. You know, it's familial. But in the stressed out world, where we're taking shortcuts, it's unfair. And if things are going to be unfair, well, I'm gonna be on top because ya gotta be.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 58:43

Yeah, well, because the thing with paper chasers is, you see all of this as a game, and it's about winning the game, because that is how capitalism is set up, right? But if you could just let go and see it as a game that you can just play for fun. That's really your best.

Dyalekt: 58:57

I mean, again, the sports thing. That's why, you know, they sincerely mean the love of the game. Like their kids are good for generations. Yeah. So yeah, they got the love of the cave. I would love for all of us. You know, as an artist, you know, we're often told that we have to be owed for the love of the game and stuff like that. And then we tell them this to us while we're broke.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 59:18

Yeah. It's like Nah, dude, give me some money first,

Dyalekt: 59:22

and then we'll love the game. Yeah, let me be able to eat. And what about our money, monks,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 59:27

our money monks, if you answered B for one and B for two money, miles at their most shameless, I see my finances as a way to serve my community and life's work. I am able to be incredibly generous with my money, time and energy without compromising my own well being. I spend, save, invest and give money in line with my values. I see the role I need to play to affect change within my community. And I have a community that sees me for me.

Dyalekt: 59:54

In other words, you can put the bow staff down. You don't have to be a warrior monk. I think a lot of us money monks, the visual is that we're activists and activist in the sense of like, throwing the soup on the painting, tying ourselves to the tree, fighting, struggling, trying to tear down something. While really we want to live in harmony with nature. I've been bringing back my old useless tree thing where we're able to be

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:00:24

useless. We explain the useless tree, and I talked about

Dyalekt: 1:00:27

this on the show. Hey, you know, it's like, like I said, it's time to bring all these things back. I am a big fan of Lao Tzu and Taoism. And in the Tao Te Ching, it's a really fun book with lots of great stories. Some of the best stuff about a just on some tea kind of vibes is Confucius is in the book, as he's basically like the Puff Daddy of his era. And Lao Tzu spends a lot of time clowning him and his subterfuge, Uncle ways. But there's this tree in the woods. And it's called useless because the the, it's the trunk, the trunk is narrowed and curved and bent and shaped, so it wouldn't make a good canoe. So they don't cut it down. The branches are too wet, and wouldn't make good firewood. So they don't cut the branches down. So the tree is useless for consumption. But it's got roots, and its roots go into the earth. And it helps water and helps irrigate. And the leaves that are up on the branches that aren't cut down, they give shades people and animals that want to live beneath it, it's able to do things, but not the celebrated things, not the extract of things, not the things that kill and take away. So it is considered useless. And thus useless. It is allowed to endure. That's all we try to

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:01:48

live. It's allowed to live. Yeah. So the thing is that I feel like one of the things that we've been taught within this capitalist structure when it comes to productivity, and it comes to, you know, producing in general is that our only value and our only worth is when we are useful to someone else or something else. And I think that if we can figure out how to separate our connection between being useful, and being a value, and being someone worth spending time with being someone worth loving, then that's really when we can get shameless,

Dyalekt: 1:02:28

which that one part is a little bit beyond our pay grade. or I shouldn't say beyond my paygrade man, that's that's the idiom. I know, right beyond our area of expertise, yes, to talk about, like, Hey, we're not going to tell you how to figure out and love yourself and all of that. But we have to be okay with the things that we're doing, or else there will be a wait, yeah, and there will be a cost. Even if it doesn't appear right now. It's something that's coming soon. And our future selves aren't really ready for it. But our future selves are never ready for it. So we have to set our future selves up for success. That's why we save money. That's why we have IRAs. That's why we have all of this, well, you shouldn't buy this, you shouldn't do this, you get him for the future now that we do need to set ourselves up for the future. But to do that, we need to understand our future. And by understand our future they have we understand our future when it's not here yet. We need to predict it. It's okay to predict your future. And it's okay to try to live the future that you predict. It's also okay, if it doesn't happen exactly like that. But if you have no plan, then that's when you end up rolling with other folks plans. And it's okay that you haven't done that. Because our brains weren't set up to do that. Our minds of we said plenty of times on the show, literally think of our future self as a different person. So we don't set up our future self. It's something that we must do consciously. Yeah, that's how we get shameless, because that's scary. It's very scary. It's fundamentally scary to the point where some folks will hear this and say, Well, I ain't doing that I got work to do. Because it's easier. Just do the thing. That's harder, and then wear down and die. Because that doesn't involve doing anything different, or the possibility of catastrophe. Yep, shameless is opening yourself up to a lot of risks. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:04:23

All right. So

Dyalekt: 1:04:25

so what do we got to do to get there? Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:04:27

What's next? That is what we're going to be exploring in the future of this podcast,

Dyalekt: 1:04:33

exploring, addressing addressing lots of verbing Yeah, it will be verbing. This is

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:04:38

what will be verbing. Exactly. No, yeah. And I think that get shameless is something that we see as the next stage and the evolution and a movement, right. It's a very much a call to action for us. It's very much a call to action for our community, in that shameless to me that I've been thinking about this a lot. As we move into this and as we move in this direction, and it's like, what is shameless mean to me? Right? And what does it mean to get shameless? And I think that a big part of it is that being shameless means that you can choose to prioritize yourself and your community. It's not an either or it's a both. And this has been coming up a lot in this last year, with conversations with friends with conversations in our, you know, in our education in our study is that two things can be true at the same time, even they seem like they're in opposition, right? Yes, you have to live in the system. Yes, you have to be useful within the system. But and I said, but anyway. And you are also you also have permission to rest to say no, to say, I'm going to put myself first secret. What's the secret? You

Unknown: 1:05:56

don't have permission? Just fucking do it anyway.

Dyalekt: 1:06:01

Right, you know, ask us for forgiveness, not permission. And don't ask for forgiveness of your boss, ask for forgiveness of yourself for not doing it sooner. We still got to do it. We still got to do it. These things are hard. And when we say these things are hard, it's not the work that a lot of people will proclaim. This is understanding your emotions. This is deciding, sometimes grieving, what you wanted to do, and what your options are. This is making a plan based on what your options are. This is putting numbers down next to your dreams. This is putting dates down next to the things that you want to do. So you can't keep them there as a beautiful star that you'll never touch because if you begin to touch it, then you might succeed or fail.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:06:53

Can we talk about the grief part of this? You said that and it really like resonated with me, because

Dyalekt: 1:07:00

this is your show you can you can talk about what you want. Yeah, you know, how much do I talk about r&b songs and comic books?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:07:07

Like so much? Right? Well, and there has been just such a collective grief in these last two, three years. And I feel like the thing Don't

Dyalekt: 1:07:14

worry, I'll show days new album is coming out. So grateful. And thank goodness,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:07:18

I've been waiting. I've been waiting. Yeah, I know, a decade plus the pandemic slowed it down right. Now, the thing the thing about grieving, grieving This is that and forgiving yourself for this is and I've been thinking about this, too, is just like, there has been one a collective grief around the pandemic around the lives that were lost around our lives and the way that we live, you know, changing so dramatically. But also, I think we don't take enough time to grieve when you change when you choose to become when you choose to go in a different direction. There is a lot of grief around the old way you're doing things right. There is a lot of like difficulty of letting go because it's hard not to feel like oh, I should have been doing this other thing in the first place. And maybe this is just the complicated enemy. But when I feel like I need to make a change when I feel like I need to do something new or go in a new direction. I need in this situation to grieve like you know what brunch and budget the podcast was.

Dyalekt: 1:08:26

It's okay to mourn and grieve these things. It's not just okay to mourn and grieve these things, but we got to we have to, this is where getting shameless get 10 This is where understanding our future selves are. This is where getting shameless about how our once our needs to. This is our getting shameless about saving, because saving is an action word. Saving isn't something you do passively. This is how we get shameless about saving money, instead of paying down debt. Because that don't rule everything around us. Despite what some talented handsome rappers might be saying. shamelessness feeds, you gotta pay yourself first,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:09:05

pay yourself first, first,

Dyalekt: 1:09:07

first, first before anyone else first, it's okay. Give the money to you. This is how you get vulnerable. Not just in your art, not just in your poem that you write for yourself, not just you know, with your family, with everyone to be vulnerable in public in these not safe, not necessarily brave spaces and see what happens at brunch and budget. We have never intended to make you a new person. Our intention is to allow you to be the person that you saw when you were young. to mourn the things that have changed. To celebrate the things that have grown

Unknown: 1:09:52

and to give yourself a break. It's gonna be iho

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC: 1:09:57

let's get shameless everybody.

Dyalekt: 1:10:00

We're going to leave you out with I thought this was a fun one. We were looking up songs about shamelessness, and we had some some homies from the last time we did one. And I found this artists, this is from 10 years ago, an emcee named et from Indiana. I look at them, I'm not even sure if they're emceeing anymore. I looked up their social and they're like, I make games and software. So they're still creative. And this is a song where they were talking about being shameless about what they saw in the industry. I don't know if I necessarily agree with all this stuff. They said, but I appreciate the shamelessness of what they're talking about. And we'll leave you with, as always, you know, our indie songs by our creative community because just as art has been the thing that has led us to this point, Art has always told us that we can have a different and better world because artists, despite everything, know who we are, this is shameless by et and this is shameless by brunch and budget. This isn't the end. We'll see you soon. Peace.

Unknown: 1:11:00

Sometimes people ask me. What are you afraid of?

Dyalekt: 1:11:06

ain't afraid of nothing.

Unknown: 1:11:09

Like a modern day samurai Chuck Norris, with nunchucks made of to Chuck Norris's in my hands. I don't even think you can fathom no games, no gimmicks, no shame, no image, gonna make you witnesses and paving the path and if I'm making you mad, I'm taking it back. No games, no gimmicks. No shame. No image gonna make you witnesses are paving the path and if I'm making you mad, I take you back. Sometimes I wish I was a teen again. So I can have a squeaky voice and not be stealing Justin Bieber says what do you think I am fake just because every other rapper in his game is a freaking scam like Santa Claus. They thrive because you believe in them and every winning garage will cripsy Park to borrow be Miranda ghostwritten Batson also go but we pretend they wrote him even though the credits are listed on the sleeve within the CDs you get for 15 and change but there's only eight tracks don't you think that these explained and yet they have the balls to call us all so even names keep us trapped for money and expect to hear a pleasing thanks. I don't know to me it seems shady the Drake can blow up while hawks is in the wings waiting sit the sloth look at tweets crazy call me what you want a mask I'm gonna keep paying the games no gimmicks no shame no image gonna make you witnesses and paving the path and if I'm making you mad I taking it back no games no gimmicks no shame no image gonna make you win this is a paving the path and if I'm making you mad, I'm taking it back I give props when they're due. I'm just another fan another rapper acting rabid because I want to change but I don't understand why it's like passing over me in class when I'm the only one holding a hand sometimes I feel like I'm chauffeurs when I hit these new tracks dropping I'm hoping that the joking these one word hooks in these one note melodies fill me with the malady the show window we're building the new one to every one this is the country now. Taylor Swift selling millions rappers can't move a couple down hip hop has become a Dudley sound that's why every MC with talent is moved to underground now Chris Brown thinks he could rap Why don't you stick to beaten women let me beat up the tracks must have murdered you wonder bone song I'm thinking even ways verse made you seem pretty wack. No games, no gimmicks no shame. No image gonna make you witnesses a payment of path and if I'm making you mad, I'm taking it back no games no gimmicks no shame no image gonna make you win this is a payment path and if I'm making you mad, I'm taking it back I got no image because the more you know Mirage is my music it's just like what you make in your garage is no hate to Nicki but I gauge you know Minaj because I'm against the ribcage is breaking open logic now just because I'm wired I gotta wrap like I'm not him. Okay, just move aside slim if a sounded like that I'll be avoiding that he's not gonna pull the natural jacket so it's exactly I know Rob I love college. Paying 30 grand a year to party on your parents stuff while it's found in this to fill in the jumped on. You make sense in hip hop like a biker gang of rough dogs being unique and cool if you got to try won't forget who I am and decided dollar size. If you only buy me what I got inside. I guess I'll just keep my day job. I'll be fine

Dyalekt: 1:14:46

thanks for listening to the brunch and budget podcast. Please feel free to rate us debate us hate us. Data's in love infatuate us something that means you'd like us but rhymes with eight. Say what's up tell us we make great stuff on Apple podcasts are really anywhere that lets you come at Reddit YouTube, I don't know just tell somebody like just knock on your neighbor's door. Subscribe add us to your archives feel free to share any episodes that you think will help somebody out help us expand our circle so we can bring the real to more communities. If you got a song about money, financial systems or how you feel about either please send a link or mp3 to dialect dialect.com. Figuring out how to spell it is your only real obstacle. We love some informational intentional, influential songs from indie artists.