Get Shameless About Money

Replay: Does financial literacy education actually work? w/ Andrea Ferrero

May 04, 2023 Brunch & Budget
Get Shameless About Money
Replay: Does financial literacy education actually work? w/ Andrea Ferrero
Show Notes Transcript

We have been out in CA this last October and November, teaching workshops up and down the coast that focus on financial literacy for kids and adults. There are a lot of articles out there, from Time, to NY Times, to HuffPo, to the Economist, to Slate, who have evidence that it doesn’t work. They […]

Dyalekt:

Good afternoon, and welcome to brunch and budget on bonfire radio with your host, Pamela capelli, a certified financial planner here to help take the bite out of your budget brunch and budget.com. Your sound provider dialect and here's your host, Pamela Capella.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Thank you, dialect and Happy Sunday everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. We actually are recording this on the road. We are still in California. And we just finished teaching a one and a half day financial literacy workshop with our business partner for pocket change. Andrea Ferraro, and she's actually here today with us in our Airbnb studio.

Unknown:

So we figured we'd get all nepotistic.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Thank you so much for joining us because you had no choice. Andrea?

Unknown:

Happy to be here. To contract for this?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, yes, exactly. But we figured that today. I mean, we we've been spending the last month or so just doing financial literacy workshops and talking to kids and adults about it. And a question comes up a lot. And I've seen this in articles a lot where people like to say financial literacy, education doesn't work. And so today we wanted to talk about, well, does financial literacy education work? Or are we wasting all of our time?

Dyalekt:

I mean, I've spoken to a number of people who work in certain sciences and things like that, who say education doesn't work. So maybe we're

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

all just doing it wrong. Maybe we're all just wasting or just stop listening. Now guys flail

Unknown:

around until you

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

flail. Is that your advice?

Dyalekt:

That's my advice for life. Kids just flail around until you die.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Well, hopefully by the end of this show will feel a little differently. Oh, yeah. We're oranges or stick with us?

Dyalekt:

Or maybe we're just doing a more sophisticated version of flailing in which case, feel free to flail in your own sophisticated

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

flailing. I love it. All right. So before we jump in, I wanted to do a little investment appetizer. It has been a while since we've done them. And today I wanted to talk about drips

Unknown:

or drips. That doesn't sound very appetizing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

What if you drip through? I guess, yeah, dripping food in your mouth. Oh, that does sound gross. Let me not even go there

Dyalekt:

was we're talking evolutionary stuff with that bird. Yes, thank

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

goodness, oh, my god, although being able to fly would be kind of cool. But hollow bones hollow bones, we don't need any of that. Instead, we have dividend reinvestment plans in our lives. This is what drips are. I'll say that one more time dividend dividend reinvestment plans. So if you've never heard of this before, it is also known as a drip. And what's cool about it is about 200 corporations actually offer shareholders the ability to buy stock directly from the corporation, and have the option to reinvest the dividends. So basically, what that means is, instead of going through a brokerage firm and paying the brokerage fee, you can buy the stock directly from the corporation, and your dividends get reinvested into buying more stock. And what's nice about that is one, the dividends don't just show up in cash, and you get to take advantage of compound interest. So the actual investment compounding on itself. And the other thing about dividend reinvestment plans is you can buy partial stock. So instead of saving up to buy another share, for instance, you can actually buy part of a stock through a drip plan. And that's what's really great about drips, one of the disadvantages of drips is no diversification, essentially, so you are consistently reinvesting into the same company, essentially. So, drips are a great component to add to your portfolio, they can reduce fees, they can help you buy stocks that you normally wouldn't be able to afford on a regular basis, but at the same time, don't make it 100% of your portfolio.

Dyalekt:

Well, yeah, cuz it sounds like there's something about this that benefits the company as well.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, absolutely. I mean, it benefits both of you. So you don't have to pay fees and you keep and you invest in a company that you believe in, but for the company, it means that the money stays in the company.

Dyalekt:

Okay, word Yeah. Is this really only a good idea with companies that have a high dividend rate?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, not necessarily. It really depends on where you feel like the company is going. So you still have to do your due diligence, especially if you want to invest in a drip with a company.

Dyalekt:

Okay, so I mean, it's not like this is a surefire thing, but if we're betting this is you doubling down

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

yeah, like if you were gonna invest in the company anyway might be a good idea, especially with large companies to see if they have drip programs versus going to like a Charles Schwab and paying$8 to invest in the stock.

Unknown:

Right Gotcha. Yeah, all about cutting out the fees, cutting out

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

the fees, cutting out the middleman and also being able to continually reinvest in a company that you do believe in. Right? Yeah. Whoo.

Unknown:

So Something to drip unbelieving.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Well, I wanted to talk about drips because I feel like that the biggest theme for how financial literacy, education and any education to work is to actually consistently drip the information. Not into people's mouths or anything just maybe in their ears and brains.

Dyalekt:

I really hate that slogan. You can't sell anything worse than a drip this on, drip this on. It didn't work for Reagan, it's not working for you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I was trying, I was trying to make connection. But anyway, financial literacy. Andrea Ferreira is here with us. She is an amazing educator has been educating pretty much forever. And we met pretty much forever since she was a baby.

Unknown:

Around ready to

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Oh, come on. You know that's true. If you've ever seen her teach, you would feel the same way

Dyalekt:

she taught Methuselah in the third grade.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That's right. That's right. So we are out here in California because we are teaching financial literacy workshops. And Andrea and I met because we are teaching financial literacy camps down in Santa Barbara. So when we met, we were like, oh my god, we should totally be friends and business partners after knowing each other for a week. And we're like, you know what, these camps should be in schools, right?

Unknown:

Definitely. I mean, we saw the need. And as a classroom teacher, I've seen so many kids that really get math, they connect to their social studies, and then they get out there in the real world that falls a little flat and they're not sure how to use those skills and and take it farther.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, man. So we looked at each other. And we're like, why isn't this in schools? What is going on?

Dyalekt:

I want to interject real quick. If they're teaching financial literacy out in Santa Barbara, where all the money is located. Money, doesn't that mean that that's where that's the direction everybody else ought to go. I don't know why that hasn't caught on from the Oprah what's going on, man?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. Oprah calling you out right now? No, for real, stop giving people exposure. Yeah. For real. So I mean, I guess the question is to we are teaching camps. And it wasn't a population where, you know, everybody needs financial literacy. But did they really need it the most. And so and also did it work, right. It was a it was a week long camp, and the kids kind of went home and they went to volleyball camp the next week, and then they went to soccer camp. And then

Dyalekt:

the thing about, you know, who needs it the most, that's one thing about affluent groups of people is that they're exposed to a lot of different things when they're younger, so that they can get their hooks into it and get some understanding of it. So that as they continue to grow, they get continuing education, and none of it is a shock when it actually becomes something that's they have to deal with, as an adult.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah,

Unknown:

I think it's a lot of that repeated exposure to that you were talking about. So kids that are coming from more affluent families, it's the same thing with sports or skill based learning, they may go to camp and try out canoeing for a week, and then they decide they really like it. They may go to an entrepreneurship class, and they decide they want to create a business. And then they're talking with their families, they have other opportunities to take that further. Ah, yes,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

exposure continue. I'm not even gonna say the word. So continuous exposure. Um, so I guess the question is, because we have all I've read a ton of articles about whether or not financial literacy works. And today I want to talk about when it does work, when it doesn't work. If it's important to start young, I remember when money camp was on The Today Show, and one of the comments afterwards was, so starting at 11. Isn't that a little young guys? And I was like, Excuse me, did you just undermine the entire purpose of what we're doing? Thanks a lot. And curry monies for grown up people bodies for grownups, you never need to worry about money until you're a grown up, right? Which, of course, doesn't make any sense. And then I wanted to cap it off with what parents and youth leaders can do to help develop financial literacy with their kids. And also do it in a way that does work. Because there are definitely ways that we've seen where it doesn't work. And there's a lot of really outdated and boring financial information out there. And also the approach that we're all kind of robots, you know.

Unknown:

Yeah, I definitely think so. And I think like it having that opportunity for young kids, kids are seeing money being used out there in the world. And you know, they're in preschool, they're seeing it happen. And so even things like Sesame Street, they're exposing kids to, you know, spending, saving, sharing, and so having an opportunity to ask questions, and to be able to explore the concepts with something that they're already seeing in their daily lives and with their families. Totally.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I love that because that's the other component of it is I feel like that people are like, Well, if we just do this one class and high school with them, and they should be total financial literacy geniuses, right. And it's not about that. I mean, exactly what you're describing was building habits around money and understanding your relationship with it. And I think that that's really that's really the critical piece that's been missing in a lot of financial literacy education.

Unknown:

Yeah, I definitely think that is and I think it's also the one of the other pieces that's missing is have the chance to, you know, kind of puzzle through things that you're seeing in life. So it's that communication piece, and especially when it goes back into the family. And so there's some fear around financial literacy, I think, too. And so that leads to some of these programs where it's like a one hit wonder you come in for a day we talk about it, but then you don't have a place to keep talking about it. Keep learning.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, totally. Also, can you tell that me and Andrea have been teaching together for seven years? Because I'm not even asking her questions. We're just looking at each other. And she's like, okay, got it. It's my turn. I'm gonna go. I love it. I love it. So I really want to delve into this after this first song, and really just get into does financial literacy work? What do people say what financial literacy out there isn't working? Right, and what kinds of what kind of materials should you avoid as a consumer as someone who's trying to educate young people?

Dyalekt:

Well, in the interest of nepotism, I thought today would be a great day to play mostly our friends. Yes, nepotism wins. Yes. Nepotism kind of always wins. Let's shut down the show. No, nepotism wins. That's the whole point of money.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It's over. It's all about who you know. So

Dyalekt:

we're gonna start since we've been going across the country. We're going to start with double cross country with Lex rush featuring Jay The Goddess will check you in a minute. What's your budget by radio?

Unknown:

Kevin flexepin Jack like we all know West Kevin Kevin looks like we don't know West Coast Kevin looks like we on the West Coast. Looks Russia speech. Make the best opponent Noriega or take him this is why this kid Vincent Vega or children cross country in a beat up Winnebago on their scenic in your GPS and book you're gonna win off the grid throw the NSA off track, but someone's always watching. My opponents have been stuck in waiting for me to come back. Like you're locked in gone like that beat p3 My songs sound like they your net PCP. Split the ship to get you with a new ship was suspect and Mike Heiser so safe or Chuck and Stacey Wallace Shane with them William H Macy went out on a gank field like 77 Reggie Jackson knock it out the park along with show establishment looks like we all know Wesco Kevin Alexei like we all know West Coast Kevin Lex like we all go west coast lips Russia speech Rick the best toast all cat Alexa vignettes like we all know Wes Kevin Kevin Alexa like we all know West Coast Kevin Alexa. Like we on the West Coast looks Russia speech of the Lynbrook Shire quarter when voting and doubles that were too sweet like marmalade would come up. Like point five nine overshot the focus was on sets the Glen Cove and the sea cliff. Back in the 50s Drinking coffee with beat Nick Wiggins, Bergen McKenna, Ray Kroc and Karl Marx like Red Dead Bobby bass. Senator McCarthy would have be blackmailed, but I just go to Cuba and that Uber would assign on me definition of Patriot pilot by five six because I'm such a fucking young socialist Alexa like we all know West Canada Canada Alexa like we don't know West Coast Canada Alexa. Like we aren't the West Coast lips Russia speech the best toast on Canada Alexa like we know the West Canada Canada Lex and Ben yet like we don't know West Coast Canada looks like we aren't the West Coast looks Russia speech. The best toast burn and it's always my turn to come out on site. You shuffle you're not gonna stop you see me not gonna stop and no I'm not gonna, but maybe I'll just get slow kinda like a volcano. I got this fire in my bones. So I just fit this fire words with his rocks of poems. I mean, I can't ever leave this microphone and everybody got the same page when I get off the microphone like damn, she just just you sit I don't even hear it like 10 minutes later they still feel it I just let the taste man go for a while just chocolate child salad and they'll decide to sit and be like via hot coals is hot and I'm under pressure so maybe I'm a diamond in the end of all the things together get together come together stay together or not. Don't really care because I own what they have for Alexa but yet like we own a West cattle cattle flexepin yet like we all know West Coast Kevin flexepin yet like we know On the west coast licks Russia speech make the best toast off.

Dyalekt:

And we're back bunch of budget bonfire radio that was double cross country with Lex rush and J The Goddess here on nepotism day we're playing with and hanging with and talking with our friends. And today we've got Andrea for Arrow, the wonderful, magical fantastical company pockets change.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It is so wonderful and magical and fantastical, isn't it? So I just realized that song was called double cross country, which is so appropriate because we're double cross country it. I love it. I love it. So thank you again, Andrew, for joining us. And before we really dug into financial literacy, and how we came to be so passionate about it, I just wanted you to get a chance to give everyone an idea of what your background was.

Unknown:

Yeah, so I've been teaching for over 10 years now I started out as an elementary classroom teacher on the reservation where I grew up and went back and taught there after school. And then when I left the resin came out to California and met Pam, I got really excited about bringing life skills into more areas of education. So kind of those informal education spaces. So camps after school programming, and then I've also worked with digital literacy. So helping kids use technology to extend their learning outside of the school day. Oh, that's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

so cool. Also, can I just tell you guys, the reason why no Andrea is because one year she answered an ad in Craigslist for money camp. And we had already filled the position. And I was like, I'm sorry, it's filled. And she was like, okay, and then the next year, we needed to fill the position again. And I feel like like literally less than 24 hours after we put the Craigslist post up for the following year. She was like remember me, pop out. We know, nationally persistent. I love it. And this is why Andrea is in our lives. So teaching for 10 years, and we've been doing I feel like we've been doing financial literacy education together for seven years, which I mentioned earlier, which is seven of the 10 years of your damn, that's crazy. It goes by fast. It does. It really does. So I just wanted I keep referencing these articles that say financial literacy doesn't work. There was a Slate article that actually referenced how financial literacy education doesn't work one, when it's done by the financial companies that actually would rather educate you than actually put consumer protection in place. So they did bring up some interesting points. I feel like a lot of the material that's out there is either created by or funded by financial institutions.

Dyalekt:

Yep. Well, that's not education. That's just advertisement. Yeah. Under the guise of education, it's like if Trojan was sponsoring sex ed?

Unknown:

Well, Colgate Does sponsor some dental health.

Dyalekt:

That explains a lot. Oh, man, oh, man. Well, you know, and those and you're talking about, you know, social studies and stuff. That's, you know, a lot of the people who sponsor are the things that go on our history books. That's why those things aren't true.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep, there you go. There you go. So I mean, I feel like that financial literacy, education gets a bad rap one because of that. So this guy, David Nelms, who works for Discover, was talking about his company's efforts to educate Americans on money matters. And one of his reasons you guys for why they like promoting financial literacy is, in terms of the benefits, obviously, if consumers are better with their finances, then they are going to qualify for our products more in the first place.

Dyalekt:

Yeah. I mean, you know, that's, that's less barriers than it could have been. Well, he was saying, like, Well, look, if they make him money, then they gonna spend it on me. That's okay.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. Well, the other piece of advice they were giving, actually, in their curriculum was we recommend three to six months worth of living expenses in your savings account for emergency funds. But if you don't happen to have the money, consider using a credit card as your emergency backup funds.

Dyalekt:

That that's what's known as is giving diametrically opposite advice. Yep. Pretty much just to give you guys a little freebie of the types of things that are taught in pockets change, having three to six months of savings is a solid backup. Yeah, you should have and the opposite of a solid backup you should have is spending

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

more money on a credit card beyond your means.

Dyalekt:

Well, you know, we just found out I was looking at my credit score the other day. One thing I wanted to shout out since I started working with pockets change brunch and budget, my credit score has shot up in less than two years over 120 points. That's like a whole credit score. Somebody's got 120 points in your credit score.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And that's why you're listening. Thank you.

Dyalekt:

Exactly. Y'all y'all out there. Y'all know I'm talking about anyway. The thing that we're talking about when we're looking here at the credit scores was, I found out it used to be that if you spent more than 50% of your credit card Add money, then you will get hit on your credit score and your credit score will go down. Yep. And I just found out after spending only 40%. But now the number is 30 spend a third of your credit limit. That is a bad thing to credit companies and credit companies are going to smack your thing on down. Yeah. So if you're trying to maintain good credit, like, like what they're telling you, man is trying to tell you from the credit card expertise side, then this is a terrible thing for you to consider that an extra savings account. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

that's so insane. Also, it's not a savings account. If it's not money that exists for you say that one more time, please. It is not a savings account. It is not money that exists for you,

Dyalekt:

there'd be no savings account if you had never saved it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, for real, for real. So that's one crappy thing that they're promoting. And the other side of it is, so we have these we have these consumer things. I know, Andrew, you've seen it a bunch?

Unknown:

I definitely have. And I think too, it's there's a lot of misinformation out there. And that's a big goal of pockets changes starting young and getting the kids used to asking questions, and not just taking for granted when they read something like that, that you know, oh, that's what I should do. I should take out a credit card, because that's my backup plan.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel like that we've seen that more often than not is you get this bad. And also, bad financial advice is usually sounds more appealing and easier. So people are like, Yeah, I'll do that. Since I can't really sift through it anyway. And I don't know the other side of it, then that sounds easy and doable. Let me just pick that. How about that some authority figure told me that it was true, and that I could do it? Right?

Unknown:

Yeah, I definitely see that with a lot of like, high schoolers as they're starting to consider college and they're reaching out to colleges, and they're being encouraged to take out student loans. Oh, you feel stressed? Like, you're not going to have money? We don't want you to be stressed with taking on a job. Why don't you take out a loan? Right? It's like a step above a payday loan, basically. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, straight up. I mean, student loan debt, as we know, is just like, so insane right now. And I honestly feel like a big part of that is a lack of financial literacy education. So, you know, there's the side of it, where the companies are trying to teach people financial literacy. And the other side of it is people are saying that you shouldn't start financial literacy education unless it's actually relevant to the person. So they're like, they have this new term. That's called just in time financial education that I found, and I was like, what does that mean?

Dyalekt:

Just in time, you mean like, early and often.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

They mean, like, you should only really learn about what a mortgage is, when you're about to get a mortgage. And you should only really learn about what a credit card is, when you're about to get a credit card.

Dyalekt:

Define about like, by about You mean, like several years before?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

They mean like, Oh, you're ready to apply for a credit card? Here's some info about it learn.

Dyalekt:

No, that makes, you know, you see, you're wrong there, Pam, that makes tons of sense. No, no, it don't say you're wrong and saying that that's not a good thing that makes tons of sense. Of course, they should learn about it right before. It's just like you first hear about calculus a day before they sa t. And my athletes should know this. It's just like, you learn the playbook right before the big game, right? Like about an hour before the big game. You open up the playbook. You look at it, it sticks in your head, that all makes perfect sense.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That is why I was never good athlete. I've been doing it wrong.

Dyalekt:

Right, right. You see preparation? Who wants to prepare for things crazy?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That makes no sense. Education isn't about preparing for things and learning things year over year and

Dyalekt:

everything works. You've been educated for years is education have anything to do with building blocks?

Unknown:

I'm staring dubiously at an odd point to jump back. I don't ever think you can maintain apparently I have been teaching wrong all

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

these years. Well, you know, I really just learned to read like three seconds ago, because I just needed to know how to read right

Unknown:

now. Yeah, that's how you get ready to do a radio show.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Exactly. You know, I just learned how to read

Unknown:

in this moment. Like, let's start building literacy now.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, just but only for a semester because that's all you need. Right?

Unknown:

And just the piece of information to get you through the next hour. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And then you can just go on to the next just in time point in your life.

Unknown:

Cut this sarcasm with a butter.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I cannot believe that when I read it, I was like, Are you kidding me just in time. I mean, it's one thing I get it to learn about a financial product, maybe as you're about to buy it because financial products are so specific. And a lot of them are pretty complex. And you know, it doesn't necessarily make sense to learn about a specific insurance or investment product until you're about to buy it. But you should still have an understanding what insurance is in general or what investments are in general before you before you have to buy it.

Dyalekt:

Well to not be funny about it. It really does sound like how people used to talk about and I guess continue to talk about Sex Education, when they're really what it is, is, I don't understand this well enough to actually teach it. Plus, I'm concerned because I don't understand my students well enough and their level of readiness well enough, so I'm just gonna push it off as far away as I can. So it doesn't have to be on my shoulders. And you can't blame me when you actually don't know nothing. Yep, that's what that sounds like.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, exactly. It's like we did it checked it off the box. Why do you have babies?

Dyalekt:

Because I guess you didn't learn your financial literacy.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Exactly. No, I mean, one of the things that one of the articles brought up that I thought was interesting, and it's the reason why financial literacy, education doesn't work is because it's not just about learning how to budget. And it's not just about learning how to save. I mean, one of the smart things that we've seen in our workshops is people who come back and have had done the workshops, and they were like, listen, I filled out the budget worksheets every year for three years. And then I went to college, and I hit real life. And I didn't really learn about, you know, how my relationship with money was. And so understanding your relationship with money and understanding how you behave around it, I feel like it's something that has been missing in financial literacy education. I know, it's something that we have found ourselves spending much more time focusing on because it's one it's works. And two, you can start teaching that when they're five. Well,

Dyalekt:

also, isn't that and you can correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that what literacy is when people use the term financial literacy in any way other than as a buzz term, literacy doesn't mean learning how to spell words, there is an actual understanding of what those words do when placed in a certain order and how they have meaning.

Unknown:

Exactly. And I think that goes back to what you were asking about Pam too, and dialect shouted this out at around building foundational blocks. And there's pieces of financial literacy where you want it to be developmentally appropriate, what you're sharing with a five year old is going to be really different than what you share with a 15 year old. And for kids that are seen every year for the last three or four years, they're at a different level, each time they come in, and different things in their life are going to be more relevant or less relevant when they come in. But each time they are able to bring that experience to the table, they're able to talk through what they're seeing. And it is that huge emotional component. So as I'm reflecting on my life, you know, one of our students, you know, he's getting ready to buy his first car three years ago, he wasn't thinking about buying a car, but he was looking at like savings and for his goals. And now his goal is bigger than it was three years ago. But he has some strategies in place for saving.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Absolutely. And the whole concept of saving is actually a part of his life. Now, you know, how many people do you know, who only have checking accounts who don't have savings accounts? You know, and it's like, all my money just goes into this one place, and just introducing the concept of, Hey, there's this thing called savings, and you can open a separate account specifically to save money.

Dyalekt:

I mean, how many of you people know people are people who only use check cashing spots?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, totally. That's a huge thing. You know, the idea of having a bank account even is foreign. For a lot of people. That's so true.

Dyalekt:

Because, you know, banks have a bad reputation amongst a number of communities, deservedly so. And a lot of ways. Yeah. But the the people's reaction then is like, Well, I'm not gonna mess with it. Yeah. And then they end up falling prey to even more predatory people.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, totally well, and the other thing, too, is like, you know, we got a lot of jokes about putting money under your mattress, because banks are evil, or they take your money or things like that. But, you know, the idea of getting comfortable with banking is something that you have to start at a young age to the idea of putting money in a bank and knowing which banks to trust and knowing what to look out for, because banks are looking out for themselves. That's the reality of it. And to understand that at a young age means that you can start to look at the system, and take advantage of it in a way that works for you. You know,

Unknown:

and I think that's a big piece too. And education across the board, with literacy, with financial literacy, with mathematics getting ready for college and career, we want that student ownership piece, we want the kids to come in and own where they're taking their lives to see things as a choice. They have options. They have the ability to make decisions for themselves and reflect on those decisions and move forward. Yes,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

choice choice. Thank you. I mean, I feel like that's the biggest thing is I remember, when we, when I initially started teaching financial literacy camps with you. One of my biggest takeaways as a 2021 year old was, wow, these kids know they have options. You know, it's not just about getting a job cashing it at a payday loan place and hoping that you can pay all your bills. You know, it doesn't end there.

Unknown:

And it's not a self judgment to and I think that was even a big learning curve for myself getting into more financial literacy is I don't have to judge myself for each decision that's made. I can reflect on it. I can choose how I feel about that, and then how I move forward from

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

it. Right. And I feel like that's a critical thing too, is that we don't talk about it, which means that it is a taboo. And parent. I mean, we've seen the stats, parents feel more comfortable talking to their kids about sex and drugs and about money. And for that to be such a taboo, and it's something you have to deal with on a regular basis means that you do get people who just completely avoid the situation altogether and get into more trouble.

Dyalekt:

How do you talk to your kids about sex and drugs without talking to them about money?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

How do you even get to those things without the money, right? There you go. I mean, honestly, money is the last taboo. And it's because we are taught to be ashamed of it from a young age, we don't talk about it, you know?

Dyalekt:

Well, one of the things about it is we front about it one way or another. The whole idea of like, rich kids wear baggy clothes, and poor kids wear fancy clothes and all those types of things where you you try to make sure that people don't know what type of money you got. It's often the brokers one of the bunch who's like, I'll pay for this round.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It's true. That's a good point. I mean, that's, you know, that's why we have, that's why we have people hating hipsters. Well, right.

Dyalekt:

Right. Well, I would just want to say, um, but you know, it feels like the credit card companies cultivate that type of thing as well.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, definitely. Well, they're like, you can live beyond your means this month, borrow some money from us, you can just pay it back, when at the end,

Dyalekt:

we're the hipsters by the way. I've been called a hipster a number of different ways in different outlets, but I don't really feel like I relate to them very well. But I do dig them. And I dig the hipstery idea of, I'm not gonna buy the new camera, I'm gonna use my grandma's camera and build a dark room in my room, and I'm wearing the old clothes that I found in the attic. I feel like and I feel like this in a lot of youth culture hating things. And this has been seen throughout history is that people have an adverse reaction to people who don't participate in commerce, people who are not participating in the same way. Yes. And I think that if you bring it up, the hipster hitting thing is like kind of a joke. But there's some real stuff to that. And when we talk about the way that we've been raised to treat money, there's a shame involved in skewing the normal financial model that everyone else goes by, and not playing by the rules that everyone else goes by not buying all the stuff that everyone says you're supposed to do something wrong with you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, totally. I mean, I feel like that that's one of the biggest things, too, is to have financial institutions be responsible for creating or funding financial literacy programs, they have no incentive to not make you consumers. Why wouldn't they want you to keep buying stuff, you know, and so even the even the concept of someone who recycles and buys stuff secondhand, is that messes up the cycle of the economy in their head, you know, that messes up their profit margins, for sure. At

Dyalekt:

the very least it messes up the primary markets and secondary market, which isn't very homey.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, I mean, I feel like that starting young, starting young is something that we need to do. And, you know, I work with adults, but I really like working with kids, because I feel like that's where you can really start to change habits and start to change how generation feels about this stuff.

Unknown:

I definitely think that's true. And I think when we're starting with young kids, you know, we've worked with early elementary school all the way up to kids that are going off into college, they have this openness to the information there. I mean, there's definitely still some fear around different topics. And there's, you know, emotional connections and family values, but they feel more open and discussing those things. And they, for the most part, have less judgment around them. So they're able to start to take in that information and make plans for their future. And they're also thinking of a lot of things very aspirational. And so that gives them this whole space to dream big and to start to make plans with them.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, totally. I mean, you've taught six year olds this stuff, right, Andrea?

Unknown:

We definitely have. We've shared our money personalities with six year olds, and they will explain to you why they feel that they are a spender or a saver. You know, we have some avoiders and I am one of my favorites. We had a little girls six years old in first grade and she explained that she was an avoider and she knew that she was an avoider because she hides her homework in the bottom of her backpack and she never does. Be an avoider

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

so cute. And also real man, you know, when you're six, what your tendencies are, you know, if you like to spend money, or if you need to buy a new toy every week, or if you're like, every birthday dollar that I get is going into my

Unknown:

piggy bank. Well, that's the crazy thing is you don't not have a relationship with money. Yeah. And I think that speaks to it. And one of those big questions that comes up when we say is financial literacy effective is our kids ready to talk about this? Can they understand it? They can understand it and they might understand it a different level. But having the conversation early and often is a great thing. Right? And

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

the thing is, they're already picking stuff up from you whether you know it or not? So if you like that that's a critical thing. So before we go to a song, we I mean, we're going to talk about how you as a parent, or you as youth organizer can help start the conversation with your kids. But first, we got to do a brunch. Lunch break. So we've been eating really amazing food on this trip. I have to say dialect. Oh, yes,

Unknown:

we can find in the back of the car. Yes. And

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

in and out. That's it. No, the brunch break is not in and out. We actually went to this really amazing Filipino barbecue place called the parks finest shout out to them. They are they make Filipino barbecue. They smoke me all day.

Dyalekt:

No, no, they even have a shout out recipes to Nate dog. Their slogan is smoked meat every day. Yes, you

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

can get a t shirt that actually says that. It's amazing. So one of the amazing dishes that they have is beeping cornbread.

Unknown:

So if you know what those two things are together,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

oh my god. So Bianca is a Filipino dessert that's made with rice flour and corn bread is corn bread. Bread and butter. Yeah. And so corn bread made with rice flour, with sugar sprinkled on top is pretty much heaven in your mouth.

Dyalekt:

Just want to shout out they're in Los Angeles.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, they are in Los Angeles. They are in Echo Park historic Filipino town. Yes. Historic Filipino town. They had the most amazing barbecue like literally fell off the bone and they have pineapple barbecue sauce.

Unknown:

This is some serious banipal Barbecue. So

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

it's so serious. So shout out to the parks finest in Echo Park slash historic Filipino town. We really really really really really liked your food.

Dyalekt:

For more information. You can check out the parks finest.com And yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

yeah, just drool at the pictures and be sad. You're not in LA because I kind of am right now.

Dyalekt:

Oh, go to LA. Oh, yeah. Just go and do it. If you're near La just go and do it. They got one of those wonderful signs where you can put a little pin in from where you're from. So add your neighborhood to the map.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I love it. I love it. So what do we got next? Who was worried nepotism coming next,

Dyalekt:

more on the nipple ties meant there we go here. This is the debut album from a pair of MCs from the coma kids grew its oil to head trip and all those guys they're most recently seen on the broke MCs new album dead beats and they got something you ain't used to, you know like financial literacy. And we're gonna catch you in a minute on brunch of butter bonfire radio

Unknown:

shame on you getting two times two times over the last my head trip I think we need some new always lined up brackets that get stay away from blue lines one hands the Jameson of the cheeks the moonshine Romans do these times and time do Roman can ascribe to omens defy him any sign you hold and describe a blind who lacks the mode to notice that both display and overseas they don't know the noses clean King super slick the blue let's get the blue principal gonna be the new chicka boom in your brain got no love for jump on my new rap name is young son of a bomb and when I'm down with a prostitute and that guy to drop it to some makeup platform itself why no seat and why my new Yeah, as Drake comes with rules loose this is a new way used to me a trip is like tuna fish she goes goose I swear to god it's the sum you way used to old fashioned with some Matson rocks shopping on a budget so we constantly off rip it on the kid that lost his caucus was shot back he wrote the double concubine in Scotland shockcraft Nasty from the cynical ball had whimsical tall black accomplices doll Strong Bad emails on a digital podcast What am Anja little father sent me already not long last the dual rear refuted me conquerors of a reusable conquest to Camelot court jesters analog foil nanobots and to bring your ball until we center it's as common as a sign of the chemicals that's injected in your ventricles to complement the measures on the you when your best friend tech the the stethoscope press to you don't just you know head straight couple screws rules. This is some new way use me you go be like oh J and Froot Loops through word and God some new way us The mass wasting brown trash can do and go

Dyalekt:

and we're back. That was something new ain't used to buy bald Afro and the economy creates crew just dropped a new record for their debut record. I call it a debut record when you already been a group but in a larger group,

Unknown:

new record some new a new a new submarine, a new submarine record from the karma kids.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I hope that catches on

Dyalekt:

yes, no, that's not going to we're back brought your budget by by radio. We're here with pockets change bounder and we have Herrero. We're talking about whether or not it makes sense to change buckets.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, does financial literacy education work? And I feel like we made a pretty good case that it does when it's done right. You know, I have to say hate all those freaking financial literacy tests where they're like, Well, only 30% of the kids were able to answer these questions about compound interest and interest rates and banking, especially because they've never been exposed to before. We're so shocked that only 30% of them could even guess these answers. Yeah, well, I could

Dyalekt:

only handle 30% of the answers on what Power Ranger are you most likely.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I feel that I feel that. So I the critical thing is to start early. And Andrea has been an educator for 10 years and specifically in early childhood education. So she helped pocket change actually come up with some some really good rules to live by and guidelines to go with when you want to start talking with your youth about financial literacy.

Unknown:

Yeah, definitely. It's all about building an open line of communication, whether you're talking with your kids at home, whether you're a teacher, and you're connecting with your kids in the classroom, you know, if you're after school program coordinator, and you're meeting up with your kids for a club, mean things about money are just going to come up naturally, you know, there's a book, there's going to be a you know, book club, you know, or you know, Book Fair comes up and the kids are talking about money and what they want to buy there. You know, you go to the store with your kids, and they're asking for things a birthday party comes up. And you know, we're gonna plan about what are we getting for a gift. There's lots of different contexts where you know, money is just going to arise. Yep. And so part of that, like, build a connection where the kids feel comfortable, it's okay to ask questions. And it's also Alright, as an adult, whether you're a teacher or a parent to say, you know, I'm not quite sure about that, maybe we can come back to it and talk more about it later, but not making them wrong for asking. And so a big piece of that is our three C's. Yes. The first one is consistency. So you're giving them the chance to have this open dialogue. So we're making money conversations a part of everyday life.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I like that. I like that it was it's not like this weird thing.

Unknown:

Exactly. And it gives a lot of space for it to come up in everyday life, you know, we're driving to the store, and a question pops up about, you know, I want to get this when we get there, I want to get some candy. Well, you know, do you have money in your piggy bank that you bought with? Or maybe it's gonna be like, Well, I think you can get one treat today. But it's an open dialogue around it. Also setting expectations and keeping them you know, so we're gonna set some ID ideas out there, we're going to talk about kind of what are expectations for discussing money as a family or as a teacher and students are, and then we're going to keep to those. And the last piece within like setting that consistent tone is having an open dialogue around our values. So every family is a little different, and how they feel about money. And so one thing that often comes up in conversations around money is allowance, or how we're earning money, how we're using money, and so feeling free to kind of talk through those values. And see, you know, what are some of the things that our family likes to use our money for? What are some of our, you know, our habits and, and how do we feel about, you know, finances, and that can be really fun, but it can also feel really stressful. And so to try and take some of that stress out, we want to add the fun back in that's a big part of what we do with pockets change. We've actually done workshops with parents and kids where we come in, and sometimes the parents feel a little nervous when they first sit down. Oh, yeah, we've had parents leave. Yeah, yeah. And you can see their face get strained. They're not sure how to talk to their kids about certain things. They're not comfortable sharing certain information. But when they do stay, and start to open up that dialogue, some really great things can happen on we had a little girl and her grandmother was sitting down and they started to do a school year budget together. And she looked up all sudden with wide eyes at her grandma and she goes we spend that much on my clothes in a year.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, those light bulbs.

Dyalekt:

You know, isn't that as an educator isn't that the type of thing that happens in all subject areas when you got a parent who is not good at math, rather than help their kid with their homework or and try to Learn together, oftentimes they shy away and they thought important or become dismissive of it.

Unknown:

Definitely. And it's a whole comfort level. And so, you know, sometimes it means to like playing a fun game or watching a video together. And so there's a lot of financial literacy resources the same way, you know, instead of maybe doing the multiplication times tables on a sheet of paper together, because we don't feel comfortable. We're going to watch a song, you know, quick shout out with a nepotism dialect. He has multiplication song,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

multiplication charts, album, shout

Dyalekt:

out to ignite learning, you can get it there.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Love it, I love it. Well, it sounds like too, I feel like that the conversation can be easier than you think it is, you know, it is about you're setting expectations with your kids already, why not start doing it with money. If you make the money discussions, part of everyday life, because they're going to come up every day, then it's something that will eventually start to feel natural. And, you know, you want to be able to share your values with your kids and make sure they they understand what the family values are.

Unknown:

Definitely. And I think too, then it also empowers the kids so that they feel comfortable going out and talking about their own personal values. I think one of the things that sometimes comes up as a question too, when families start to talk about finances, and what if my kids aren't ready for this information? Or what if they're not going to know what's okay to share and what's not okay to share. But that in itself can be a discussion and I found in conflict tying it back into other subjects, that same thing happens when we're going to say, Okay, we're going to use the internet at home. Well, how are we going to use the internet? What am I allowed to look at as a you know, as a kid? What sites can I use? And what information can I share? What can I look up? Same kind of thing with finances, we want to have an open discussion around it. I love

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

that. Yeah, cuz I know that that's a big fear that's come up with parents is maybe I want to share my family finances with my kid. But I don't need every kid on the playground to know how much money we spend on our electric bill.

Unknown:

Yeah, and I think too, there's also sometimes some worry, especially if your money personality is to be a worrier, that you know, what if I say that we're, you know, we're having some challenges, or we're having some struggles? How do I express that, to me, it's my child. And what if I'm not comfortable expressing that to my child, and so I'm feeling stressed about money, I don't want to talk about it in another context. And I think that's one of the next C's is that connection, we're taking some of that stress out of it. We're not saying you know, that you need to sit down and say, I'm having trouble with bills right now. But we can have a conversation around when we're at the store. It's not that I don't want to buy you that toy that you really want. But that's just not something that we can do right now.

Dyalekt:

I need to rewind, because my brain just exploded there on a second. Why don't you want your neighbors to know what your electric bill is? Who does that help? Does that help you and your family? Oh, does that help the electric company? I'm saying right, if we don't discuss I mean, I understand to some degree people being nervous about some luxury item that they bought. But when it comes to utilities,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

yeah, no, you're totally right.

Dyalekt:

I mean, why are we scared to talk about that kind of thing? Because we know what that's supposed to cost?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right? Right. Like, why is that? Why is the taboo so big that you can't even talk about that.

Dyalekt:

That's scary. That is scary. And that reeks of manipulation to me.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. That's part of the change in pockets change. We want to change the way that works. Totally agree one step at a time. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And part of that is feeling comfortable telling your kids I guess,

Unknown:

right? Well, you can't tell your neighbor, you can't tell your kids.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep. Yep. Straight up. It's true. So tell us more about the connection. See, because I think that that's, that's a really critical part to tying everything together.

Unknown:

Yeah, I think a big part of you know, money is it is so tied to emotions, and even at a young age, and I think every one of us can remember a moment where we didn't have something that we wanted. Or there's also a time that you can remember where an argument was around money. So money is very, like, it's an abstract thing. But it is so emotionally connected to things that we need things that we want, kind of some of our not only our personal values, but the way that we live our life, the choices that we're making, how we're spending our time, the things that we're doing. And so part of that connection is being able to have the discussion around that. And so instead of you know, going down that road of we're going to have an argument and a meltdown in the store, having some strategies in place to kind of talk through things with your child. And so there's some fun ways to do that, you know, and part of that is always looking for those ways to affirm that what they're sharing or that their need is valid and that you understand where they're coming from. And so you appreciate that they're sharing what they want or what they need, but maybe it's not something that you can get at this time. Or maybe it's something that you want them to save up for. So giving them some some ownership in that process. Oh, word to autonomy.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I love that. So you never have to say no, you can't have that toy. You could say Here are some ways that you could get that toy.

Unknown:

Yeah. And one of the things that I love in that is something called enforceable statements. So it's saying something like, you know, as soon as you've saved up enough money, I'd be happy to come back to the store and let you get that toy, you know, so. So it's not, we're not going to have a meltdown about the firetruck that's now in the basket, we're just going to nicely place it back up on the shelf. And I am happy to come back here in the future when we have saved up enough. And you'd have that in your piggy bank, and you're ready to come back and get it.

Dyalekt:

That also sounds like the type of thing that they teach you in office management as a good boss. Yeah, good manager, if you phrase things in that way,

Unknown:

yeah. And it's one of the things that as an elementary school teacher, and then all the way up on to high school, I really liked modeling for the students, because the more that you do that with your kids or your students, you'll see them start to do it with each other. So you're giving them the ability to resolve conflicts, and also to advocate for themselves and to communicate and articulate their wants their needs. And persuasive language sometimes, too.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Sounds like way more than financial literacy.

Dyalekt:

Well, I mean, I mean, you this is all of these things have such foundations in each other?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, absolutely. Apps and money is is this construct that we've created around, you know, what we care about and the things that we value?

Dyalekt:

Right. And it's, the funny thing about it is it's not exactly math. It's not exactly economics. And that may seem confusing to people. But physics requires math isn't exactly math. Yeah. That's just sort of how these things branch out.

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, there's so much interconnectedness. And it's really, it's bringing financial literacy in. And I think that kind of, you know, when we've been talking a lot about family and discussing it at home, but bringing it back to the school, and which is, you know, what brought Pam and I together, we really wanted to see more of this in schools. And as a classroom teacher, you know, hanging out with my colleagues, I've definitely known a lot of teachers, I've been in this space myself sometimes, where you're not comfortable sharing certain topics with kids, because what if I don't have the same family of family values is a student? What if I say the wrong thing? What if you know, I'm not feeling comfortable with my own finances? And this was something I had to personally get over? What if I don't have all of my money stuff together? Should I be trying to teach someone else how to do that? Right, what right? Do I have to do that? Right? Yeah. And at the same time, it's the same thing, like with math can take it back to that, you know, when I was younger, I had some fears around certain areas of math, you know, I got into calculus, though, and started having a lot of fun with it. But there were areas where I struggled. But that didn't make me not want to teach math to students, it made me want to take the struggles that I was having, and look through the process and the strategies I put in place to kind of work through those things and share those with students so that they could work through problems.

Dyalekt:

See, see, this is the whole thing with learning. And schools. It's not about I know this, I don't know this. Learning is a process and a journey, and really is best done together. So it's not about you being Mr. or Mrs. or whatever, super expert on whatever you're talking about. It's a process that you go through together. That's great. Thank you.

Unknown:

Yeah. And I think that that really brings it back to that last CT, which is choice, like it's about it's an ongoing process. And it's all about looking at things as choices. And you know, sometimes I might make a choice and then hold on is not what I wish I had done. And that's okay. Yeah, but it wasn't right or wrong. Exactly. And I think that's a wonderful thing, too, about financial literacy with younger students. We want them to make those mistakes when they're young and call them affordable mistakes, because it doesn't hurt quite as much. You know, if I blow all of my money on candy when I'm eight years old, and I learned that I really wish I had saved because two months later, there's some new sneakers that I wanted. And so I start to build strategies for saving instead of blowing all my money on something that I want for an immediate need. That's going to hurt a lot less than eight years old then at 28.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. When you're buying so much candy, because you can because you're an adult, right? I've heard these restaurants on

Unknown:

brunch and budget, you know, you can't help it you go and you spend all your money getting the great food. Yeah, exactly. It's true.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

No shoes to wear, no shoes. And you have so how can a parent or a youth leader help their help guide kids through the choices that they make?

Unknown:

And I think that's, that's part of the ongoing process. Because I think that as an educator, too, you're not going to have all the answers and that's okay. But you're being a guide, you're being a resource. And sometimes too, that's just, you know, sharing a place where they can go and get more information. But I think part of it is, you know, so you're starting that inroads to having an open communication so kids feel comfortable, they can come and ask you questions they can share about their personal experiences. You know, when you're a classroom teacher, you wear a lot of different hats. You know, you're also a little bit of a counselor. You're also talking a little bit towards, you know, future career college wareness you're helping them with some, you know, maybe some things that they're dealing with outside of school and home, you know, you're helping promote their interests. You want them to be able to pursue hobbies. You want them to develop socially and have friends. And so financial literacy falls into a lot of those different categories. There are things that are going to come up that are just part of the kid's life. It's, and so you can be there for that, to have an open communication and to also share some share some little lessons along the way. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

definitely. I mean, I feel like that in these workshops, we all share a lot of our mistakes and some of the choices that we made and wish we didn't make. And I feel like that that, you know, that lends to the idea of you don't really have to know everything you have experience, and people can learn from it, whether or not you feel good about the choice, you know. And I

Unknown:

think too, as a as a teacher, you know, there's, there's so many small ways that we can integrate that in pockets, change lessons are actually on Teachers Pay Teachers. So we sell our curriculum online. And you can take an activity as simple as you know, we're practicing addition and subtraction and multiplication in the classroom, I want my kids to do some open ended problem solving after that. And so I'm going to print out this activity, they're going to work through how they would spend their money, you know, that they've got $10? How would you choose to spend that that's going to include that addition and subtraction? Right? Right. And it's,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

you're not asking them? So if you have$100, and you're getting paid 2% interest? How much money do you have in a year? Like, that's the kind of stuff where it's like financial literacy can be relevant. And I feel like that that's when it really works, you know? So I love this, we have consistency, connection and choice. And I'm not just saying I love this, because I'm one of the cofounders of the company, I think it's pretty good reason to love it to

Dyalekt:

financial literacy, that it's actually a form of literacy. Yes, it's a good thing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, absolutely. And something that happens every year on a day to day basis. You know, it's you know, you don't just like we sit like we were saying earlier, you don't just learn to read when you need to learn how to read. Right? It's not just like, Oh, crap, I need to read a book right now, let me learn real fast.

Dyalekt:

Well, I mean, what are you saying, you know, when people are saying that, you know, you have to learn it soon as you have to learn it that's like that rote memorization for a quick time. That's like, acting like it's not real, right? And if it's something that's real, and that you're going to be using in your daily life, then you're going to have to absorb it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. And it's also acting like we're not human beings, you know, that we're like robots who can just like take in information, weigh the pros and cons and be like, Okay, I choose this. So, yeah, I mean, consistency, connection and choice. If you want to see this infographic that we have for more info. We will send out a link in the show notes but I think we got to wrap it up. We got one more nepotism song right. Thank you so much, Andrea, for joining us. Great to be here.

Dyalekt:

We'd like to thank Andrew Ferraro founder of pockets change and inventor of the lesson and and the lesson plan right? We're going to leave you off with a homie BS with his job so much John, and catch you next time. What's your budget Wi Fi radio peace

Unknown:

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