Brunch & Budget

b&b232 When it comes to investments, all times are uncertain w/ Kevin Matthews

July 29, 2020 Brunch & Budget
Brunch & Budget
b&b232 When it comes to investments, all times are uncertain w/ Kevin Matthews
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Brunch & Budget
b&b232 When it comes to investments, all times are uncertain w/ Kevin Matthews
Jul 29, 2020
Brunch & Budget

We were so happy to have Kevin Matthews on the show to explain how to think about investing during the pandemic and create an investment plan that weathers all uncertain times.

Show Notes Transcript

We were so happy to have Kevin Matthews on the show to explain how to think about investing during the pandemic and create an investment plan that weathers all uncertain times.

Dyalekt :

Just like hot messes and stories that are hot off the presses justice is best served with a series of run on sentences. This is brunch and budget the show about personal finance and racial economic inclusion with your host, Pamela Capalad, a Certified Financial Planner and Accredited Financial Counselor here to take the bite out of your budget. Brunch and budget is part of the Race and Wealth podcast network. I'm your sound provider Dyalekt. And here is your host, Pamela Capalad.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Thank you, Dyalekt. Thank you, everybody for joining us. We are very excited for the show today because it feels very timely as we are experiencing a big, tumultuous, volatile time in stocks. I was gonna say a big drop but it depends on the day.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, the stock market is mad volatile. Right? And if you like looking at the stock market for fun, that must be excited. Yeah, maybe I don't know. You guys know if you've been listening to us that usually when we talk about stock market, we're like, set it and forget it as possible. Use it as a way for you to build the wealth that you've already attained, or like shooting stars, you're trying to pick stocks and if people are stock picking, now is the time there's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. Bought on someone who's smarter than us at it and spent their time doing it. Kevin Matthews of Building Bread. Experiencing a little trouble getting him connected.

Kevin Matthews :

I can see you guys. Okay,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

We can totally hear you. Oh good. It's all good. It's all good. No, and Kevin Matthews, best selling author and investment expert. And the thing about Kevin that I really love is his take on investing is different from mine. I actually don't pick stocks. But I love Kevin's approach to picking stocks and how he makes it accessible for other people to pick stocks if that's something that you want to do. And also just in terms of thinking about investing in the stock market as a way to build generational wealth. I feel like that conversation doesn't happen enough. And Kevin talks about it all the time.

Dyalekt :

Well, and the thing about it with Kevin, I really appreciate it that it's not the lottery. That often is when people talk about stock picking and we'll talk about the stock market in general, and especially when we're talking to people of color, and really, especially when talking to black folks, because there's, you know, black folks in America are hit with every lottery imaginable, right? There's the literal lottery, how many folks you know that like, you know, their grandmas or 85 are still playing the lottery. There's the sports lottery, there's the music lottery, right? There are these things that was like dangled carrots. And one of the ones that I think more pervasive these days is stock lottery over the past like 10 or 15 or so years, it's really been like, this is your ticket to you. All you have to do is be smart and be able to guess right, and you can get the right thing and then you'll be rich.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, that's not how it is. So thank you so much for joining us, Kevin.

Kevin Matthews :

Yes. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. So I want to start with what's going on right now. I love that we re-posted your post about the last 11 years versus the last four months. Let's talk about that. Let's talk aboit the last 11 years versus when COVID hit. So it is something that is scary for especially a new investor to look at this and decide whether or not to dive in. I feel like people are getting like different advice like now's a good time, the stocks are low, buy low, sell high, blah, blah, blah, right? So how does someone who's new to this start wrapping their heads around what's happening now?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, so the thing is not to try and wrap your head around what's happening now, because now is crazy. It was hard to wrap your mind around. You will be wrapping your mind around like the most difficult day. But like I try and wrap your mind around what happened in 2008, the.com bust, by the way recession like that was I'm still unraveling what really happened, but for 2008. So what you should do is take a step back, take a step back and say instead of like, let me hone in on what's happening. Now. Let me see what's happened over the last 10 years. And what happened after the Great Recession 10 years after the fact what happened to the.com bust 10 years after the fact. And normally what we've seen time and time again is the market tends to go up. And the way I look at it is 10 years from now you're going to wish you started 10 years ago because you're not going to get that compounding interest again, so it makes sense to understand the big picture, not today's picture, but the big picture. It starts slowly and calmly as you ease yourself into.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

That makes a lot of sense. I feel like that feels very rational. I mean, I still feel like at the same time how you quiet your emotional self. Like I hear that on an intellectual level, especially when you're new. You hear that intellectual over, you're like, Okay, I get it, I get I get I'm supposed to wait. And then when people see their IRAs, or their 401 K's drop, even though they're not able to touch it for like 20 years, there's panic. So how do you quiet that like emotional side of you?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah. And that's a tough thing. So the easiest thing to do is number one, it is normal to feel that panic. So don't feel bad that you feel that way. Everybody feels that way. But one easy way that I've been able to make it through and coach other people to do the same is we sit down and we pick 4 days out of the year in advance. These are the only time that we're really going through and making changes. These are the only times where I'm really going through to like really focus on my account. The reason is you're only going to go in and really make maybe quarterly changes, maybe bi annual changes, right? Yeah. So checking every month every week is not going to help you. Because you're not you're gonna overreact to things. So, you know, for me, it's, you know, January 2, then April 2, so on and so forth. So that these are the times I'm really gonna sit down and make any adjustments if needed. Because on a month to month basis, you really don't know what's going on. And you really don't overplay your hand and mess yourself up. Also, if you check your your account in January, and you came back and checked it in April, you're actually okay, because you missed a lot of what happened back in March. So those overreacted in March missed what happened after that when we had the biggest 50 day gain in history.

Dyalekt :

That's great. Even if you're investing actively, you don't have to be there when wild stuff is going down. Right. You hear the stock market right on the news. You don't have to jump in and be like, oh, what's going on?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

That advice you just get I like wrote it down because I was like, Oh, that's how to do it. Cuz I think I know people who in March panic, and I've heard people who are like, I can't I just fell out of everything. What do I do? Oh my gosh, it's gonna happen. And I think that's such a great way to get out of your own way is to say like, Oh, I'm just doing this ahead of time I'm not gonna look otherwise and I'm just gonna let it roll.

Dyalekt :

And I also want to shout out to our longtime listeners, especially people who know about money, personalities, maybe you've taken the test, brunchandbudget.com/personality, think about your threshold, think about how much time you actually can spend on these things, how much you can do before it makes you go a little bit crazy. And scheduling and planning out the dates that you check. It can be really healthy and helpful.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I think when we talk about like active investing and passive, I think when people go to the extreme, where like, if you're active, you're in there every single day you're doing like all these days and looking at all these charts, in reality, it's a lot more boring. It's like, Well, you know, I've evaluated some things, I'm gonna buy these, I'm going to come back in December, and see if I still like these or not as opposed to looking every single day.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I love that you said that too, because I feel like when people think of stock picking and investing and all this stuff, especially on TV and movies, it seems exciting and there's always activity going on and all this stuff, but like whether you're actively or passively investing, and we're going to talk about what the difference is in a minute, but like, whether you're doing whether you're picking stock or whether you're just like letting someone do it for you, it's boring. And that's how it should be.

Dyalekt :

Well think about it. That makes sense. We talked about the movies like right, the most boring thing is the easiest thing to dramatize like a fast paced basketball game is really hard to make into a movie. There's a lot of great basketball and baseball nice and slow and boring. You can make a great movie out of that.

Kevin Matthews :

That's a good point.

Dyalekt :

The exciting parts of investing are probably hard to dramatize, right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. Okay. So we're understanding how to separate our emotional and rational side we're picking these days in the year. What are some of the absolute basics that someone needs to know about investing in the stock market before they start doing it?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah. So the first thing is understanding It is not the lottery like you, you're not going to buy one share or something and turn around and be super rich. Like that is not how it happens. I don't care where you saw it on Facebook or whatever, that is not the case. Number one, no, that is a slow, consistent process, it is going to be boring, but more than likely, you're going to be rewarded. So that's the first thing. The second thing is understand your risk, and that not everything that's out there is for everybody. Like there are people who love investing in Tesla, you would have made a lot of money in Tesla, that's just not for me. And you know, I take whatever consequences that come with that. But do understand that you are a particular person, your finances are personal and so your investments in however we you want to raise that so make sure just like issues fit, make sure your investment fits with who you are, because some people invest in the wrong thing. There are people that say, I don't want to lose money, I don't want to wake up and my money is gone. But they put everything in Bitcoin, which is not what you want to do. sure that your investments match who you are, and I think those are two things you want to start out with.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

So how do we start to figure that out? I just want to dig deeper into that, because that sounds, that sounds really good theoretically, how do I, as someone who's literally never invested before actually say, like, Okay, this is who I am as an investor, like, what questions Can I ask myself that like will help me get to that answer?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, so one of those is to understand, like the history of any investment that you have. So I like to do where they say, so whether you're in finance, or any of these other apps that are out there, type in the investment that you're looking at, and look at the last two to five years and see how you feel you would have reacted. So thats one. But number two, we have what's called risk tolerance questionnaires. And those answer those questions, it's usually like maybe five to 10 questions, it'll tell you this much to be in stocks this much to be in bonds, and that's gonna be a real, a more accurate answer of where you should be as an investor.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Gotcha.

Dyalekt :

One quick question about that, like, break down the colloquial risk tolerance. I know you don't mean bravery, right? So I really mean by risk tolerance,

Kevin Matthews :

I would say, I'm looking at like a personality test. You know, what, what flavor of the flavor of investor Are you kind of, but it just says, like, you know, an investment can either make a lot or lose a lot, right? Do you want to be on high risk in? Do you want to be in the medium? Or do you just want to be like, I'm just here in the middle, I just want to be solid. So that kind of helps you to identify where you want to be in that spectrum.

Dyalekt :

That's really great. Because I get so it's not that, you know, if you have a high risk tolerance, you're like, Oh, I don't care what happens. It's like, you know, like as a person, right? But when it comes to always risk and it's are you comfortable with a high risk situation? Or would you prefer a lower risk, right, like a great way to break it down?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I think the thing we end up focusing on is either the reward or the risk, right? It's like the stocks are so crazy and so volatile and so risky, or wait, I can make a lot of money in the stock market. And I feel like that there needs to be some kind of in between that we all actually landed right?

Kevin Matthews :

Mm hmm definitely definitely I agree.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I love that I love that so one of the recent posts that you had oh wait no let's go to a song okay

Dyalekt :

We got songs here again when you guys listen on the podcast you'll be able to check them song we play independent songs from artists all around the world. This first one is the artist is named Xi that's spelled Xi from Detroit Michigan with a song called Making Bread from their album Versatile.

Song :

some men run banks some rule the world. Yeah, I gotta eat I gotta eat. some men run banks some rule the world. money rule the world. Hammer wrist and this are my thoughts the philosophical catalysts To be real shut up where they like the cattle did dance about was because I'm on another level both these rappers talentless born punch lines corny jokes in the lack of wit that I have to fight with nothing but a cigarette to dump on fucking appetite pass them I get an assist from acolytes tell Scotty be me My home is with the satellites by bandage chillin on different planets planning to get the plantlet in damage and antics give them dope bars and I talk about sanics laparotomies from colonies leaving these naked sprays yeah I hope this is like your last look fire in my journal yeah clashing my magic book for two pages on your finger skin incinerated stories of the young motherfucking Karen Aveda has to fix me up weed is my pick me up with music is what keeps me up I'm thinking about a meal again when in the dead of night waking up to being broke. I notice pride is in my throat you'll never ever see me throw it up behind the stage gummy pop like a supercell I'm guaranteed to leave the stage wet blood sweat and tears so whoever hit the stage next can slip on my attitude and fall from altitude or whatever you want. I'm living through living through this not trying to make excuses trying to stop the truth is I can't be broken.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I see what you did there. Making Breab, Building Bread. Y'all should follow them. So good. I wanted to go to a song first because I wanted to talk about this question that you have.

Dyalekt :

Right? We're talking about this. Yeah, issues. Again, people have been listening to the show. I've talked about this before how I was at a conference and I heard this guy talking about instead of buying Nike shoes for your kid buy one share of Nike stock. Now, this isn't about Nike in particular. They're a big company. And I was always like, I don't think that's helpful because outside of other stuff outside of any education about it or making an investment plan, one share of a stock isn't really going to do like you're saying isn't the thing that's gonna blow you up and make you rich, but like a pair of shoes, you might need a pair of shoes. You might even just want a pair of shoes and that's okay, too.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

It was like a weird either or thing and we saw that your your kids grandma recently bought a pair of Nike shoes and you also own Nike stock your kid. Can you talk to us more about kind of what your philosophy is there?

Dyalekt :

And like help bridge the gulf between like, either just buy a stock or buy shoes or you know.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, so I think people tend to make these false dynamics, just because it gets it gets a lot of eyebrows like oh, you know, you should do that better. But in reality, like, Look, we all need shoes, and you're always going to need some form of shoes. So buy shoes. But also when it for me, yes, you're not going to just buy one share, just call it a day. So I bought my son Nike for the first time back in, I think it was October so 2019. And just like I do all my investments, including my index funds, because you can still own index funds. I increased my holdings every single month. So if it's $100 a month, or whatever it is, I just continuously just bought him Nike because that was a quality stock that we felt that was good at the time. You know, like you said, I don't think it is the best practice. I know a lot of people say this, I don't think is the best practice to look around your house and just buy stocks in the stuff that you have. Like sometimes it works if it's apple or Microsoft, sometimes it doesn't if it's like JC Penney's or Macy's, right. So like, yeah, yeah. So it really depends. So you gotta be careful about just I did because I buy this. I should own the stock. That's not always the case.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Right? Well, even recently, Uber, right. Yeah,

Dyalekt :

I guess that's the thing that I I'm thinking about because I know we've had guests on before we talk about like a good way to start thinking about who you would want to invest with is thinking about who you spend money with already. What is like the relationship that you think that you should have? Or maybe that you have between the stuff that you buy purchasing for you and the investments that you make? Is there any connection?

Kevin Matthews :

I don't see a strong connection, I think it's a good place to start researching is what is what are you researching is a good place to start looking because a good stock is different from a good company, because I experience it differently than what someone else may experience. When you think about like an Amazon like we think I'm going to Amazon I'm just waiting for the boxes as a consumer. That's all I think about do my boxes get here on time, but in reality, a lot of their money comes from Amazon cloud and a whole bunch of other contracts that I don't experience or understand or even see. Another good example is Disney. A lot of people only think of like Disney World Disneyland they always think about how ESPN has been shut down because they haven't had sports for so long. So like you have to understand the different parts of the business because as a consumer, I'm only worried about Disney World, I'm not worried about anything else. But you really have to understand the whole business point of it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Wow, I didn't even think of that.

Dyalekt :

It's so funny how compartmentalized, even more so than before. I remember when Sony was making the Spider Man movies and Marvel movies. They're like, Oh, Disney's just gonna buy Sony cuz Yes, Marvel movie division is way bigger than Sony movie division. But Sony has a really big company. Huge

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

PlayStation, Right. Well, the thing too, I love that. I we're bringing the research aspect into this because I think ultimately being a consumer is not the same as being an investor in that company. Right? It's not just like, Oh, I buy Starbucks. So let me get Starbucks. So you talked about the research side of it. What kinds of things do you look for that make a good stock?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, yeah. So one I try and look for, like the CEO. Always look at like who is running this company. That's unfortunately subjective. So how I may see someone like, I'm not a Elon Musk fan, I'm just not. And some people will say I love him. So like, that's going to be subjective. So there's just one thing, but I look at particularly the last six months to a year, we have some research at UCLA that proves to the degree that momentum does exist. And in a way, it is not 100% perfect that the last six months to a year can somewhat predict what may happen to the next six months to a year. So I just like to see like, hey, over the last six months has this not been good? Okay, I may want to continue digging here and seeing what's going to happen next. But essentially, the stocks that have done well over that period of time tend to do well that next period. So those are two just very simple things and also look to see is a company growing and are they profitable? There are companies like Uber like Lyft they're huge people use them, but they haven't made a dime. Those are companies that just for me, I just completely avoid.

Dyalekt :

That's really helpful. I mean, the first lesson, especially to me like the CEO thing, and it's the company profit. What you're saying, are they making money even if they're making a big splash and what you're saying but Elon Musk like not to say any kind of thing for like how anybody feels about these guys, but he's known for being volatile and for causing volatility in his own stock. Regardless of how you personally feel. I feel like if I see that there's a celebrity CEO, who is not like Mr. Rogers esque in there, I'm probably gonna be nervous about the stock, right?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, exactly. And that's the exact reason why I'm just not not comfortable with it. And again, like everybody, you know, we're probably in the minority that we just probably don't, don't chill with that. But you know, people make money and that's fine. I'll have to hit a home run. And that's the thing. Not every stock I own has to make me a billionaire. That's not how it works. You can pass on good ideas and let them go as long as you consistently growing your wealth.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Oh my god, that is so good. That is so good. I just want to reiterate that like not every stock is gonna make you a billion dollars you can pass on a good idea. I think this really just goes back to what you were saying about what kind of investor you are. It's not just about like, can you tolerate risk, but like, what companies do you actually want to be aligned with? Right. But I love that. I love that. So how, I guess we mentioned active versus passive investing before. Can you talk to us about the difference between active and passive investing?

Dyalekt :

I guess the fundamental difference, the fundamentals, the functional difference.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, the difference is, so when people say passive, we're talking usually about index funds, which essentially means I'm buying this I'm putting in whatever I'm putting in every month, I just sit back and passive. I don't really do or change anything that is super general, what passive is an active investor is going in and making changes to do just a little bit better than what a passive investor is trying to do. So that's like the general philosophy. Some people saying it's, you know, meeting the market is what passive investing is explained is going to get you exactly what the market does. or very close to it, a passive investor is trying to beat the market and just do just a little bit better. So if the stock market gets you 10%, maybe I'm trying to get 12 or 13, just try and get that little bit extra. Because, if, it's a big if, If you're successful over time, that little two 3%, every year is going to grow. And that's going to really help you out if they use when you're active, you have to decide when do I want to get into this? When do I want to get out? And can you be consistent with that process?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, for some people, this goes back to your personality as well. Right? And your ability to tolerate risk is the idea even of looking at something every quarter and having to make that decision, every quarter can be really stressful.

Dyalekt :

Well, money monk chiming in here, just hearing one or 2% and that requires me to add a whole new thing to my dossier of things I gotta do. I'm good.

Kevin Matthews :

And that's fine. And that's the thing like some people are fine with that. Some people are trying to do you know, 50% extra like, Okay, well, let's be realistic. Yes, right.

Dyalekt :

already hearing like 2%, and you start to do math in your head, maybe you're the type of person who's down.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah. And the thing is some people say is that extra that'd be worth it for me, for some people is not for some people it is. But I think the thing, like we were saying earlier about the duality that we have, like, it's just the shoes or the stock, you can be both. And me personally, the vast majority of my money is still passive. And you can still have like, I own index funds my son on index funds, it's just a little bit here and there that oh, let's let's get Nike and see if we can get an apple extra. But if I don't do well, that's what my index funds are for. So you definitely have both.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I love that. So you're active and passive. You don't have to be one or the other. And I want to shout it out Valera emotional decisions definitely affect people's financial decisions, oftentimes for the negative. Yes, it's so true. Yeah, yeah. We were talking about how to get out of your own way a little bit, and I think have been what you've described about most of your investments are passive and only some of them are active. Yeah, that's a great Do it right.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I think I heard I went to some some seminar a while back they call the actively passive. Right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yes, actually passed so that that also takes the pressure off. Honestly, I feel like you don't have to like either pick all of your stock and just ride on that. And you don't have to just like sit back and like hope things work out either on the passive side. Right, right. You talked a lot about you've been talking a lot about investing for your son. How if you're a parent, weird you care? Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. How do you start doing that for your kid? Especially if you haven't done it for yourself? Like, what's the best way to go about that?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah. So the first thing is just to take your time, like you don't have to absorb all of the things right now. And then also relax on the on the pressure, because as you guys know, is as new parents, like, I have to do this perfectly. Like everything has to be right every single time. And that's not the case. Because the good thing is kids have forever like in 20 years or only between and anything that's anything that you do now. out is likely going to give them more money than what we had when we were 20. So like, do know, like this takes a little bit longer there. But I started what's called a custodial account. So you want to open up doors and start putting in whatever money you feel comfortable on a monthly basis, as you guys normally recommend, I'm more sold towards index funds, especially if you are a beginner, because over time, we know that the chances are the money is going to be positive. And regardless of how much you put in $50 a month, whatever is going to be more money than what I had when I was 10, 15, 20. I think that's the big key. Yeah.

Dyalekt :

Well, I mean, and the thing of that is like, I think like you were saying about everything doesn't have to be a home run and everything doesn't have to meet a lottery. We're thinking if it's not that then what's the point? And giving more having a place to start? That's more than zero was great. Yeah. I mean, rather than trying to like find how high the ceiling here who just trying to raise the floor, right.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I love that. Yeah. And giving you kid that extra leg up when they're 20. Knowing that you didn't have that when you were 20. That's it. That's generational wealth right there.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, that's the ability to take that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Mm hmm. I love this comment, Brian from the bank for active investment, you need to have a system that takes the emotion out of decision making. Yeah,

Dyalekt :

I'll check that out. And just thinking about that, like, I really appreciate how all of the talking about how we do need to get our own way. And none of this is because you're stupid. I don't think anyone needs to think they're like, Oh, I'm just too dumb to understand stocks. I think that's one thing that often is the things like maybe I'm not making money. It's not smart. We tend to outsmart ourselves. And that's why we get out of that because we're dumb, but because our brains are overactive. And when you're trying to manage something like this, then like you said, even when you're active, don't check it every day. don't check it every week.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

You shouldn't, right. I love this like quarterly dates that you give yourself. You're like, no, this is the only day I'm gonna look and that's it. Yeah, the only day you're gonna have anything, right.

Kevin Matthews :

Exactly, exactly.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, that's so good. So I was going to take a step back and you You mentioned index funds a number of times. Can you break down for everyone? What is an index fund? Oh, yeah.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah. So an index fund is a type of mutual fund and the way I describe it an index fund essentially owns entire segments of the stock market. So for example, if you have a US index fund is gonna own pretty much every stock in the us the way I like to describe it. And so by owning one team, you own the entire League, so you don't have to worry about who's gonna win the championship this year. You own the whole thing. Yeah, so that's an easy way to understand how index funds are so if you if you're not if you're stressed about where there's gonna be LeBron when the championship this year is only NBA, you're gonna be fine. Like, if he does great If he doesn't, you own the company either way.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

That's really good. That's really good. I love it. So

Dyalekt :

make money off the LeBron championship means or off the broad mix with crying Jordan. Doesn't matter.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

The NBA is the NBA that's so good. I love it. So Yeah, and that goes back to assets, active versus passive, right and trying to like beat the market versus meet the market, which is what you're saying before. So right. We mentioned generational wealth, what place to stock market investing have in the generational wealth puzzle for you. You mentioned investing for your kids. How should we think about it as a part of building generational wealth?

Kevin Matthews :

I think it's, I would say it's one of the larger pieces. The reason I say that is because history has shown us that other venues tend to be a lot more discriminatory than discriminatory than others. It also has the lowest startup capital, for example, African American, on average, I think, from 1990, to about 2015 or so they did a study that said black homes are devalued at $48,000 per home, as close to 156 billion in losses. So one, if you're trying to invest in real estate, or just own a primary home, however you want to do that, that's gonna cost me a lot of money up front. So that's number one. Number two, if when, if I sell them, I'm likely going to get a lower payout for that. So the stock market, regardless of where you are, we all put in the same amount we're all gonna get out the same amount. So that's one way that I see it it's also a lot more liquid because in all these things are good it's like real estate, homeownership like tons of things you can do but also business ownership a lot more risky, a lot less liquid. if I need to take out 10,000 or 1000 or something I can just do that with the house I can always do that with a business but the stock market you can. So I see that as a big piece not the only piece but a very big piece of being able to start early but whatever money you do have grown over time and then you're also liquid to go do other things.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Wow, you totally just blew my mind first of all with that stat.

Dyalekt :

Well cuz that's the thing is like, I think that especially with like books investing, we often think about lack of wealth, lack of income, lack of savings, and then the stock market game like a big hurdle. But compared to other things, you're right, and yeah, when you're saying was around $48,000 that that homes are devalued that you talk about the losses already incurred. They're like, wow, real estate seems to so much we're daunting.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

It totally does well, and you're right like the you can get into the stock market with $1. Like if you use an app like acorns if you open a betterment account, Ellevest account, there's so many robo advisors out there. And robo advisors is just like a derisive people job. Oh, no, we lost him. He'll be back. Y'all But yeah, robo advisors. robo advisors are basically they automated investing to the point where they can make it really inexpensive for people to invest and have no minimum. So the fact that a stock has a low bar Yeah, and then Childish Gamblera, stocks have a low bar of entry is great, especially with partial shares. Yes, fractional shares, or partial shares are really great way to get started too. And I really love I just love that you can own like, you know, hundreds of Amazon instead of having to buy the entire stock. You can own a piece of Amazon and still own a piece of Amazon.

Dyalekt :

Right? It's a long piece of like the hot stock that's doing well. Yeah. And I need to build up to buy that singular share. Doesn't feel like there's a lot of movement there. When we did the recipe for dummy like two part episode series, we were talking about acorns. And that was like one of the ways to like dip your toe in there getting those fractional shares.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, I think that also when it comes to real estate versus stocks, I really love the point that Kevin made about how real estate is one part stock is one part, I feel like people are very, like all or nothing, or, hey, like, only invest in real estate or only invest in stock. But it really is a matter of like what your comfort level is, right? And it really is a matter of not just having to pick one over the other at the same time. Like you can own a home and have that paper out of your generational wealth puzzle. You can't own stock and have that be part of your generational wealth puzzle. I think that there's a lot of people who are very either or, like, you can only do this with real estate, you can only do this with the stock market. And that's not the case, right? I think the stat that can be shared about how black homes are valued at $48,000 less than light homes. It's something to consider and also the thing to consider about how expensive it is to buy a home to save up for that down payment and how long it takes versus putting money in the stock market and being able to dip your toe in at like $100 $200 $500. Whatever you feel like you can afford now.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, well, this often makes me think about the necessity of information that's accessible for folks. Yeah. And professionals to talk to, because we know about a lot of stuff that nothing with savings but the stock picking and things. That's definitely something you want to speak to someone like Kevin for. And having access to more than one person who's talking to you about different aspects of finance is going to be more helpful than a lot of cases where we're leftwards. One Stop Shop.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, exactly what and the thing about Kevin specifically Buildingbread.com if you go there, he teaches you how to be an active investor and also how to be a passive investor. The thing about doing both that he was talking about earlier, is you can do both. You also can choose to only do one or the other. I think that when it comes to investing, the only thing we really hear about is stock picking right? It's like well, I want to know how to start investing and I want to and the thing that We think of is like how do I pick the right stocks? And what's great about Kevin's analogy with like, an index one being like buying the whole NBA, right? Um, is that you don't have to pick just one stock. You don't have to pick just one Kevin will be joining us in a second. Um, I just heard from him. But I think that when it comes to investing in general, it can feel really scary. And the bottom line is just start, just start with a few dollars. Just start with something you feel like you can afford to lose. And

Dyalekt :

again, like, you know, we don't get paid by a accorns and we know that they charge money. So it's not something you necessarily want to stay with. But acorns is a good place to start acorns is a good place. They'll take pennies out of the purchases you make and invest the first $5 if you are absolutely terrified and you don't know what to do, then yeah, Want to try it. Here's a question from Brian.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Oh, yeah. And Greg, Kevin is coming back on. This is a great question.

Dyalekt :

What do you guys think about using an IRA for first time home purchase in general, excellent question.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

No worries, we just you know, talked about how great you were last minute, so it's all good.

Dyalekt :

So I'm gonna reiterate this question is really good. What do you guys think about using an IRA for a first time home purchase good or bad in general?

Kevin Matthews :

So that one, that one really depends. You know, that's, that's really Right? So for me, I prefer to use my IRA as my individual retirement account for retirement purposes. Obviously, it really depends on where you are, how you plan on using the home, how long you want to stay in the home. So those you really want to factor those things into it. But for me, I do use my IRA's for retirement purposes.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Mm hmm. Yeah, and I think um, when it comes To using your IRA for home purchase, the downside really is that you're going to owe taxes. So you are allowed to pull up to $10,000 out of your IRA without paying penalties. But if you pull $10,000 out after paying taxes you're really going to end up with like $7,000 or six like how how Yeah, and it could be the difference between you being able to get that down payment or not, but I feel like that that's 30% of your money that could have been going towards retirement and may just make sense to wait a little bit longer to buy the home right.

Dyalekt :

yeah, I mean, that being said we know that they're like dire situation. Yeah, like if I don't get this thing now it's just not gonna happen. So you know, caveats with all that again,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

again, it depends

Dyalekt :

it's so true I just used mad the way that West coasters use Hella, I don't know if you know your little language break for a moment. You know, the East Coast we use mad to mean very right. But you know, they use hella to mean very but they also hella, all over the place.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Oh my god, I love it. I love it. So, um, we started talking about generational wealth and barriers. One thing that you said that really struck me was that investing in the stock market is not as discriminatory and I want to dig into that a little bit. Can you talk a little bit more about that compared to something like real estate investing?

Kevin Matthews :

again, all forms of investing aren't important, just what fits better with you. But like in the housing market, we've seen especially black and brown communities where charge higher rates or housing values are decreased, and I think that was like $48,000 last for black homes in particular. Even there was a study done this was on car loans, but for black families, I had a 660 credit score and why families that have 660 credit score, black families had a three times higher chances of getting a higher rate. So they had to pay back more, even though exactly, even though you had identical credit scores.. if you know that it happens with auto loans, you know what's happening with redlining, we saw some things with two large banks very recently, as of like two or three years ago. So that's why I'm more towards the stock market. Because again, you're able to start with a little bit of money where there's accorns, you're starting with like a penny, right? If you're doing any of these newer investing apps, you can start with 510 15 $20. That stuff does add up. And again, no matter who you are, if we're all buying the same thing, it's gonna get the exact same price versus real estate, they can vary depending on where you are versus a business that may be difficult to get started. So if you have a little bit more clarity and transparency in the stock market than you do in other areas, But also sounds like a perfect because you have less control too. So, you know, it's given us a

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

lot of other factors should black investors and other PLC investors need to consider when it comes to beginning to invest in general?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I think the big thing is considering what you what you're trying to get out. I think that's the big thing. Because I think a lot of people have real pride ownership when it comes to real estate to say, my family's bought this land or staying here for X amount of time I want this to be something that's passed on. other communities are very similar, like, similar with businesses we want to pass this business on because it's a barbecue joint or something like that, which I've never been apart from movie which is really good. Essentially, yeah, that's that but that may be what you're looking to do. Others are like, Look, I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you whatever money I have. Yeah, so it really depends on what you're looking to get out of it. You want to kind of arrange your plan around it. Mm hmm.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yes, I think I love that you brought that up because investing is, and passing on generational wealth is not just about the dollars, right? It's not. It's also about like, what, what kinds of what kinds of legacies are you passing on?

Dyalekt :

What kind of systems are you building?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, yeah.

Dyalekt :

Right. Brian, my dream but very much relates to the monitor.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, no, that really is that. And then I feel like that, of course, there's a lot of scams around investing, and a lot of scams around. And there's just a lot of people who are trying to, I don't know, pull the wool over, especially because investing is so can feel so complicated. How can we look out for those, especially in POC communities, like

Dyalekt :

I think about like your show and the guy listen to three minutes out of context of your show and three minutes out of context from another show that was predatory. I might not be able to tell the difference, especially if I have no idea what to do with investment.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I think the problem that may be difficult for people of color to decipher what's real and what's not. And because they like to use a lot of the books Whereas that we love to hear select community wealth building, bring back black Wall Street like things like that, like, yeah, I'm all about that. Hold on here. So the thing you want to be very aware of is really events, just like I said, with, with the stock market, that the CEO that the people who are putting out whatever information you're giving, so do they have results? Do they have some sort of credential, really understand who that person is and why they may be doing it. But number two, never just give your money away to someone that you can't verify. And a lot of Facebook will say, look, you know, we're doing some training, give me $20 and go recruit somebody else. If the word recruitment is in it, you have to bring in other people. That's probably not the place you want to be. But those are two things that you really want to start to go through it and do first, but always, always, always, that the person that's putting out that information, if they are legitimate and credible, you've likely seen in publications, they may have a certification or something like these are things you want to know You're gonna give your money out to someone that you just give a name for. They just talk to the game that happens.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

How but it's so so this come this brings to mind, this might be a touchy subject, the Tulsa real estate fund from what

Dyalekt :

you just said black wall street. That's one of the names people invoke.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, yeah. We got a comment from Miss. Oh, yeah, miss. Oh, I don't think I know how to say this. But that's a real problem, especially with IG gurus, vetting is difficult. and I think that that's what happened with the Tulsa real estate funds, right. Is that the i g marketing was great. The person who started the Tulsa real estate fund had been teaching real estate courses. Oh, yeah. And then a lot of people giving investment advice have no license yet. But

Dyalekt :

the sidebar on that, like, if you like someone and you're like, Okay, they don't have some sort of credential but You still think that there's something they're doing? That's fine. Just do a little further research. Yeah. And if you still decide that's cool, then hey,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

yeah, how can we kind of differentiate between that?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really it's difficult. It is difficult. But again, you want to ask those questions. You want to try and talk to people who have actually interacted with that person, like licensing things to help them perfect. But then also you want to see again, like, what can you verify? So that's one reason with like a realtor, you can verify like, yes, this person has sold this home, both on the stock market, we can verify what the stock was at this point in time and what it is today and whether that person was telling the truth or not, so that's something that I do.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Oh, that is you know, the thing about the stock market that makes it different from real estate investing, despite how complicated is as part of the reason why it's so complicated is because publicly traded stocks have to put out their information publicly period, real estate in Investments, real estate investment trusts, like businesses, private companies, they're not required to tell you anything except for what they want to tell you. Right. But companies are paid on the stock market, they have to disclose everything. You can find how much the CEO makes, you know,

Dyalekt :

you have more good shout outs and things people are saying always do your due diligence when getting financial advice, especially with stocks. Oh, yeah, shout Kevin. Kevin does a great job with that. He really Oh, yeah. That's someone to speak to.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. Yeah. I think um, Oh, my God. I think that when it comes to figuring out who is real and who is not or who's trying to scam you is just check your gut in terms of like, whether it feels too good to be true or not.

Dyalekt :

Well, yeah, I think the too good to be true. I just don't like highlighting something that we're saying. vetting the person who's in charge of it. And that means something as simple as googling them, maybe googling them with the word scam. I remember we went and checked out something that was not investment advice where googled them. And the first thing that came up was they made their own page because so many people have announced that they're a scam. So they made their own page trying to explain why they were not a scam. Yeah, that is a red flag, right?

Kevin Matthews :

something to is do a blind resume, like a lot of times will because it's like an Elan musk or someone else you think he would try to like take the names off it and just list like what credentials they have or don't have and see like if it weren't for this name, in my neighborhood, because with the Tulsa real estate fund, if you looked at the credentials, which included arrest in jail time and fraud and some other things, would you have trusted that person had they not said what they said? So I take the name off it and see is this a person or an investment or a course or member I would trust if it weren't for this name.

Dyalekt :

playbook is saying also tried to confirm the testimonials, right? They're not robots, right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Well, the thing too is if you're so Brunch and budget is a registered investment advisor. So we're regulated by the state and we are not allowed to put testimonials on our website, your testimonials can be fabricated, and it was something that I was kind of pissed about when I found out that I couldn't do it because I was like, wait, but people say good things about brunch and budget, but it's not a it's not a thing to like, hang your hat on when you're trying to decide if you should do something.

Dyalekt :

I guess you can just make up testimonials. I remember a friend of mine, a friend of mine used to sneak ads about his music on the subway, you know, in between the whole thing and it would say this is my favorite Album of the Year. Oprah Winfrey.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Let's go to a song. Oh, yeah.

Dyalekt :

Let's go all the way now we're taking it we were doing it in Michigan, before And we're gonna go all the way to Romania. I was trying to figure out what, but they didn't mention what city was represented all of Romania is Bosty with Barkey and their song, Investeedt. I'm probably not pronouncing right but it means investment. And the description of the track. His investment is a hip hop song about a man who ran out of money and does not have a penny to make a phone call.

Song :

couldn't come up with a piece of me for the film to relay this country you're nononsenseprosumers can avoid a boom boom, boom, boom, boom boom boomboom boom hospital you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I love it. So I wanted to end the show, talking about socially responsible investing. I feel like that it's become a bit buzzword II in the last several years in particular and I think now that we're talking about putting our money where our mouth is especially and investing with our values and spending with our values and spending with companies we believe in, um, how do you think about socially responsible investing if you were to create a world like forget what the industry thinks of socially responsible?

Dyalekt :

Yeah, can we understand it's a stepping stone, a lot of us like hippie dippie cancer, like this doesn't count. So if you're responsible, yeah, let's still do an awful stuff and all that but like forgetting all of that, just taking the idea of being socially responsible in terms of like for the company, for the workers, for the investors. It is like investing is now a wonderful thing that is only made you Free sugar, let's say

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

what would you do Kevin? What is socially responsible investing mean for you?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, I think for me it means clarity that I know that things are important to me that it is clear and easy for me to find out. Like I have to go dig through 1000 page report to figure out who's getting paid what and that pay equity is there but that's that's too much. So no one literally has the time to do that for 10 different stock so if there's a way to be forthright clear, maybe one resource to see all that. I think that's important. It could look a lot like the n double acp ETF which I just found out about this yesterday. But they have a there's apparently as a socially responsible index fund that they track again didn't know this existed, but I think it will look something similar to that with some some scales.

Dyalekt :

Yeah, yeah, he brought up my source anyway. Wait, the NAACP You know, you're not like you know,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

A couple years ago, I actually talked to someone at BlackRock who vetted it and the thing about the thing about ETFs in general is he was surprised. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah. ETF

Kevin Matthews :

better. Why?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Did you bet the NAACP ETF, as I just found out

Kevin Matthews :

about it yesterday, so I need to learn more about it. The glass I looked at it looks pretty good,

Dyalekt :

huh? I mean, it's really exciting. Yeah, the whole vibe of it. Right? Because the

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

thing we talked about stocks not inherently being systemically racist in terms of how to get involved in it, but a lot of the companies that you're investing in are inherently racist

Dyalekt :

Well, that's the thing. We look at the Sri stuff and like it's so broad in terms of like, the the social responsibly investing stuff, you look at a portfolio, and it's like most of these companies don't fit my values. So am I actually doing anything responsible? Yeah. And the NAACP one, well, I'm sure it's far from perfect. At least it has me thinking like oh, here's the specific set of values, right? And like maybe others, you can, you know, be able to fix they're not gonna be able to fix like maybe environment concerns, certain regulations and things like that, but you know, where they're gonna be focused and that's a star so that's really good.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, yeah, I think right now it's a story I had to dig into more of myself because I found out like at 10:00 last night and I'm like, oh, how long this has been it's been around for like two years. Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's I think it's a start I think it would look more like that then what we're currently doing now which is not that much

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

yeah. Cuz that's the thing too is like, I feel like most Sri are socially responsible investing is like the environment, clean energy. They don't address the actual, like social human issues that really lead to like a shitty environment, right? Like, Oh, well, if you treat your workers better and you pay them more than like, maybe the environment wouldn't be so bad, but they start with the environment cuz they're like, Oh, that's like you know, not that's like feels politically agnostic. For whatever reason, right? And also feels easy. It feels easy to track. It feels like a metric where you're like, Oh, we saved this many trees.

Dyalekt :

Mm hmm. That's a big thing about having a metric to track. And again, that's like a big thing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, man, I really want to look into that fun, more to I found out about a couple years ago, and I was like, Oh, that's cool. And then I read that I remember hearing from someone at BlackRock that they didn't think that the fund was diversified enough. But it which makes sense. But the other thing about socially responsible investing is you can have the NAACP ETF in your portfolio in the midst of all the other right, that's your whole like, you're not putting all your money into the NAACP TF tomorrow. Right.

Kevin Matthews :

So last I checked this was again yesterday. I know they had like Home Depot. I want to say they had Amazon and like Johnson and Johnson so different stuff. You know, I gotta go see what what's already in there. But that was on the top 10 Holdings page.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I'm so curious now how what they're what they're because the other thing about Sri is we have our idea of what socially responsible investing means when we think of it, right? Yeah, yeah. And then, and then actual, like investment analysts are like, well, nothing's perfect.

Kevin Matthews :

Right. Right. So that's my, that's my thing. I'm like, I'm curious as to what, like, how are you out? What is what is the bar was the rubric as to who's saying what, cuz I don't know if I would have put Amazon on that list. But, you know, I don't know what they were looking to get to see.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Right, right. I don't know if I put Home Depot on that list after I don't know what Home Depot is doing.

Dyalekt :

Yeah. I feel like if we're looking at our Sri portfolio being part of a larger portfolio, then maybe we want to be more strict about this one section. Like this is my ideal if, you know we can get to a place where I'm comfortable enough where I'm only investing and only putting my money into things that I really want to this is what it would look like I can't do that right now because the world ain't happy. Hit me up like that. This is an idea.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

I'm curious. We're running out of time. But do you on the other end of it right? We're talking about Sri in general, but like, as you're actively investing in picking stocks for your own portfolio, do you have any deal breakers where you're like, I'm never investing in this company? Because XYZ Yeah.

Kevin Matthews :

So mine, I don't do prison companies. I don't do gun companies. I'm just and again, like, he's like, there's nothing perfect. I'm sure some in my portfolio is like, is probably problematic. But like, those are like, super obvious that I just, I can't do so like, the prison companies. I just, I can't do it. I don't care how much money they make, or whatever it is. Those are never gonna be on my list.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Mm hmm. Yeah, those are really big ones. I think that's the that's the other thing too, about being more active is that you do get to make that decision. Right. It's true. Nope, not gonna.

Dyalekt :

Yeah. And I think that's an important thing to be able to do for yourself. It's tough. Right with all the responsibility thing I always loved hearing what folks said you know there's no ethical consumption under capitalism there's always some dirty stuff inherently involved things we're doing, but you can always say this is my threshold. This is this is the bar. I'm not gonna do this.

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, yeah I'm also not investing in Wells Fargo that's one No, not well, Fargo I just I can't do it. I don't have any any bank holdings at all right now. But if they were one of them bank.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah, I actually just found out that Wells Fargo started just putting people's mortgages on pause without telling them

Dyalekt :

other fast food places at least make something that's delicious if on healthy. Eating. Oh, it's all from Charlie. Over here, I was looking into some receipts and some people recommend your private prisons and they're unfortunately lucrative. Really? I mean, oh, avoiding chases? Well, yeah, yeah. That's the thing with a lot of these harmful companies that they are lucrative because they're only looking for profit. They're not concerned with their business practices, consumed with them, they hurt. And hey, I'm not here to judge you in your best practices. If you're like, I need to get money at all costs right now and you want to invest in those things. Go ahead and invest in those things. Yeah, it troubles your heart. If it troubles your mind, it's gonna take time out of you doing stuff that you really want to do to even think about being invested these things feel free to not mess with them.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Oh, we haven't like watch all those people have to make Yeah, pay back those mortgages. Oh, my God, Wells Fargo. I can't even handle it. So what is your final word of advice for someone who wants to jump into the stock market? What's your lasting wisdom?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, so my thing is, you don't have to be like the end all Be our expert, you don't need four degrees. Like it doesn't it doesn't take that much just to be a decent to successful investor. To me, it's like getting a driver's license like you can get from point A to point B, you're not a mechanic and you don't have to be. I think that's the big deal. So take it slow. Know that it's going to take some time and that's okay. But don't expect to be an expert. You don't have to be a math expert or finance expert to do well as an investor.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yeah. Oh my god, you have all the good analogy.

Dyalekt :

It's really important to know that you don't have to even be involved. I think that's one of the other barriers to getting in is there too cautious again, with your personality and comes to money. You're like, Oh, this is too much of a mess. It's corrupt. I don't know enough. I'm just not gonna touch it. I'll just keep saying.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Yep. Yep. I love it. How can people find you Kevin?

Kevin Matthews :

Yeah, you can find me on all things social media at building bread. I do daily lives on Facebook and Instagram at 10pm Eastern and 7pm

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Love it. Oh my god. Thank you so much, Kevin.

Dyalekt :

We're gonna close out on one last song bring it back here in Brooklyn, New York. We're actually a homie of ours a really talented artists. What's he he got a show out called eco trip and it's a hip hop theater show about the environment. But this song is called making bread and unlike the other one that started on making money making bread, it's literally a song about how to make bread Surday from BK, and we'll check it out next time again, go to building brand checkout and stuff that's going on. If you need help understanding your investments, please, please go to Kevin, thank you so much for everything that you provided today.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC :

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Song :

making bread let's make some bread. Make a bed yep you want to make bread make some bread in a small bowl mix the yeast and the water lukewarm water and some active dry yeast rice as much flour Add some salt sugar to a niche teach you how on the beat get a flat surface needed like you need it kind of help get your zone in now we did melon pretty delicious not time to heat it stretch it and pull it and squish it and feed it will mesh in with mesh in with bashing it pushing it gonna take a little bit no need for brushing it like read in Russian did need it to this question. Good to clear the mind some time and think about the stuff and yeah, and you open up your eyes. Now it's time to cover that up. Put it in a patient's eyes a woman don't do nothing. Just like in Britain. You'll make making bread you're making bread I need some bread you need to make some breakfast make them break baking bread baking bread baking bread after 40 minutes then it should be good. Get your ball back in the kitchen, you're halfway through the mission give it a good hand molded into the shape desired. Preheat the oven 100 plus 100 plus 100 plus 100 plus a quarter of 100. Window ovens good and he did a good a good in butter. But don't use butter use an emotion of water and get your girlfriend's paintbrush. If your girlfriend is a painter or if you don't have a girlfriend you can dip a couple fingers and spread it on a bed read it on a bed or club room when it's good and spread. Put the bread open the urban make up make that you make I'm making Brit Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Only cooking for 10 minutes at their height. After that, you're gonna want to take it down for too long or too high of a degree because it's gonna burn the outside. You want the inside, on the outside, be soft enough to eat. Gonna make some sandwiches about another 30 then you take it out and stuff that you feel kinda hollow when you tap it. You give your friend a brand easy in a minute but you teach that brand or make their bread and he'll be infinite break bread we made some bread