Brunch & Budget

b&b242: Why We're Still A Segregated Nation

February 21, 2021 Brunch & Budget
Brunch & Budget
b&b242: Why We're Still A Segregated Nation
Show Notes Transcript

Why Desegregation Didn't Work


They used to be lying, stealing, screaming f*ck your feelings
Now they’re crying, pleading for unity and healing
History is written by the richer, not the winners

We’re seeing it happen as we tweet

History tells us that desegregation fixed America
It admits that separate was never equal
As if separation was America’s only evil

Racial discrimination is like a nuclear bomb
Communities that aren’t destroyed by explosion
Often end up dying by fallout

The explosion was the sound of millions of white customers
Ignoring Black businesses

Even as Black customers shopped at white owned businesses
With a sense of pride

Because unity and healing

Also the places you weren’t looking at didn’t desegregate
Schools are the same place they were in the 60’s

And it’s getting worse

Music Featured in This Episode
Los Regentes by  SimónSqualo & Pensamiento Colectivo
Desegregation ft. Thee Tom Hardy by Actual Proof


Dyalekt:

When your bank account feels like it's pushing the boulder up a hill and you're looking over your shoulder because creditors have no chill and they're lying to you on social, you're looking for something that you could feel come a rock with brunch and budget and get something to wash down all the life's Jagged Little drills. This is the brunch and budget podcast the show about personal finance and racial economic inclusion with your host and looking palette certified financial planner and accredited financial counselor here to take the bite out of your budget. And budget is part of the racial wealth network. I'm your sound provider dialect. And here's your host kind of like a ballot

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

to change the intro you're not just the sound provider still provides you are also the only host anymore. Yeah, sure.

Dyalekt:

For those who don't know, who haven't been following since the first episode, and if not, then why aren't you you should go back and binge

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

all the ways it's 2014.

Dyalekt:

When we first started doing a bunch of bunch of podcasts, Pam was offered the show by tasty quiche peoples over at bonfire radio. And she was like I don't know if I should do that that guy like you have experienced in fortnight's and art violence and things like that, can you come and join and I was like, I don't know really what I have to bring to the table. And since then, I started working with pockets change where we do the hip hop and finance and we got a lot of stuff to discuss and now it's a lot more equitable disseminate our information, but it's gonna be open. I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

have lots to bring to the table. We freakin built a new table. All right, I appreciate the appreciation.

Dyalekt:

Let's get into what we're talking about today. already talking about quality separating our duties, things like that segregating

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

our know, now.

Dyalekt:

Let's get into the language of it. Yeah, I'm reading your duties and segregating your duties are two vastly different? Yeah, let's talk about it, you know, separating your duties that's like delegation, right? delegation is still people working together. It's just collaboration. Yeah, they're in their silos working on the thing that's there, especially for our desire to go.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, exactly. And what segregation

Dyalekt:

and segregation is when you tear these things apart and put them in weird non direct, but also direct competition with each other. Yeah, it's like, rather than we're all running a rat race, we've got several different feats going on. And they're not only competing with each other, but they're also intergroup. But they're also competing with all the other heats. Yeah, and it doesn't do nothing, no good for nobody. Spoiler alert. The whole thing about segregation, why it didn't work, why it should work, and why it's been put the way it is, is the white supremacist structure that hangs over everything. And one thing that we always love to say on this show, I don't love to say but we say on the show, is that white supremacy don't care about white people neither. And this is one of the things about segregation. People talk about separate but equal, it wasn't equal. But the real big point of it is all of this is just been a precursor to the overall income inequality that hangs over everybody. Yeah, we go.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Let's talk about why desegregation did work. That's what we're talking about today. I think it's an important conversation to have. We talked about it here and there. And I think it is time to do a whole show about it. No,

Dyalekt:

it sucks. When we talk about these sorts of things, and even seeing that phrase, like desegregation didn't work, it causes a lot of emotional feelings. Yeah. I mean, I'm a product of desegregation, social, work and

Unknown:

right. Biologically,

Dyalekt:

like Brown versus Board of Ed was a different thing than loving versus Virginia. But they all had something to do with each other. Yeah, yeah. There's this idea that we should be able to, I would like you here, why don't you read off the definition? because it hasn't been the definition of Where's What is it the social freedom, the Free Soil movement, and the Emancipation Proclamation and all that stuff, saying that you should have the rights to have voting rights to have land rights to capital, and the right to choose your friends?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So you should have social, political and economic rights.

Dyalekt:

Yeah. And the funny thing is, is again, skipped to the end a little bit, the only thing that they really gave us is device, choose our friends, and even those that were given on a very limited scope. I'm saying a little bit longer versus Virginia did make it so that it was legal now for people of different races to Matt right. Well,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I think so I want to reference this great YouTube video that we found from sensei I she Tim masu, it's called on integration. And one of the things that you said that I thought was really powerful was that integration and desegregation were largely done on a legal basis. Right. So you were forcing people through the law to integrate to desegregate to, you know, not

Dyalekt:

necessarily forcing them any way you're forcing them to desegregate. Yes. So you were enacting one important resegregate you are stopping the enforcement of segregation.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right, exactly. And that was largely legal, but what they didn't do was they didn't address the equality part. Right, they didn't address the fact that on a social, economic and political level, black Americans were still not equal to white Americans. And so I think that's a really important point too, is when you only focus on the legal stuff when you only focus on one aspect of it. And people did feel like they're being forced. That's why I use the word right. People did feel like Oh, you're forcing me to bus my kids to this other school, you're forcing me to have like, you know, black families in my neighborhood, right? All of these things felt like they were put on people. And so I think that's the thing with desegregation as well. Well, and

Dyalekt:

what you're talking about is the forced acknowledgement. Because the funny thing is, is that most of these people did have people of color, particularly black folks in their neighborhoods, when they were working there. They had them in there when they were a nanny, or kids when they were bringing them their wine or something like that. But the being forced to acknowledge them as people that's a little bit too much.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. Right. That's too much. So desegregation, technically happens, integration desegregation.

Dyalekt:

So that you could not prohibit folks from entering your place of business. It's why we have with, even like when we talk about recently, that pizza shop that didn't want to serve gay people, and people were like, well, you should be able to do whatever you want with your business. Why were they not allowed to serve those people? Because of the laws that were passed that were meant to cause desegregation? It was illegal, so that you couldn't discriminate about somebody based on their background?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. Okay, so tell me a word. What do you mean, it didn't work?

Dyalekt:

Well, well, what do you mean it work? Is the real question.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, technically, you are allowed to go into any place of business, you have the right to do that you have a right to, you know, send your kids to the school and school district, as long as you live in that school district, right? Um, you're technically allowed to start a business no matter what your race, you can't be discriminated against by your race from an employer. You can't be fired because of your race, right? There's all legal things that were put in place. So what do we mean when we say didn't work?

Dyalekt:

Yeah, what we mean, when we say didn't work is all of those things can be completely bypassed. And that's one of the big problems with it. It's sort of like when we were talking about that Nixon aide, who had admitted that the war on drugs was a war on black people interviews. Yeah. And he was saying, well, you couldn't just say that we're out to get black people, it couldn't just say that you're out to get hippies. But you could heavily stigmatize and criminalize marijuana and heroin and then make that the face of these people and make that something that socially people didn't want to have. I talk a lot about how people expect 1984. But mostly, we get Brave New World, but we are running careening headlong into the things that hold us down.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. I mean, they're just really grateful that you found I don't know if it's great, but it was really telling. It's a New York Times bull on racial attitudes, and 85% of whites said in response to a poll question, they did not care whether they lived in an area that most where most of their neighbors were white, or most of their neighbors were black. But in response to another question. 85% of whites also said they actually lived in areas where they have no or a few black neighbors. So theoretically, they find with everyone and they're fine with anyone doesn't have the cards. Well, that's not what happened practically. Right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So if we look at policies, like redlining, which went away, technically, and if you're not familiar with redlining, it was literally the Federal Housing Administration saying, Hey, we are not going to subsidize loans in white neighborhoods, if you allow black family to move in there. Right. And so that went away. But what happened is the legacy of that still remained right, white neighborhoods remain white neighborhoods. Well,

Dyalekt:

and legacy is a little bit broad. So to be really specific about the way that black and white neighborhoods were changed. We've talked before on the show about the Homestead Act. Yeah. Now the Homestead Act allowed white Americans because it was only for white Americans to be able to just take land and own land, and now they've got property that you're able to build generational wealth. And we also talk a lot about how that's one of the best ways to build generational wealth. Well, you know, black Americans were promised reparations after chattel slavery, that 40 acres and a mule thing that people talked about, you know what that act that was eventually shot down was called the southern Homestead Act. That's the thing. When when people talk about the special attention that black businesses or black individuals may receive or proposed received that are often hotly contested and shut down, they're straight up asking for not even liberation, as we talked about, but equality, passing the bill to allow people to have the same thing that other folks have

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

the same rights and ability to build wealth in the same way, right, and the ability to like make your livelihood in the same way. I think that, you know, we're talking about why desegregation did work. I think it's important for us to examine what that looks like in the context today and also figure out what we can do about it. Right. I know one of the big things that you and I had a conversation about was, you know, why is it appropriation and not cultural appreciation?

Dyalekt:

Yeah, you know, that's a really important point, the whole thing about assembly, this goes to assimilation versus being well integrated. And yeah, it was. A really nice way of putting it is that America wants to be a melting pot, when that's not the right thing. It should more be a mixed salad bowl, where these things don't have to literally fuse into each other and be apart and be celebrated. And you know, in some ways, we have those things plaid. plaid is cool. didn't wear plaid. It was the hipster uniform for a while. I was wearing plaid, I don't even know I'm too old to be cut these days. But everybody was wearing plaid and plaid comes from your Irish and Celtic traditions, right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I don't even think about that anymore. Right? Just part of the culture. And you know, what's

Dyalekt:

funny is if you are a Celtic tradition, and that's the thing in your family, and you've got that flat, because I'm from my limited understanding, I know that there are like plaids that are specific to your family line. If you've got that plan, you still have that and can still have pride in that. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

One of the things that and you're not offended that someone else is wearing it. I think that's the

Dyalekt:

other thing. Yeah. And you're generally not going to be offended because someone else is wearing it because it is shared. One of the things that YouTube video that you were addressing earlier was talking about is if we had done the work, of integrating of making sure that we understand, appreciate and celebrate everything about each other's culture, then of course, we can share them in a way that is ours. Right? We can't make them ours, and we wait around for a chance to make the mind. That's appropriation. And that's not cool. It has been 50 years that you told me that my peoples tribal were or our ancestral traditions are horrible, and not even not professional starting out as products of devilry, then as signs that you are inferior and should not have the right to live both dream whatever, then talked about 20 years after that as a professional, and now you're like, Oh, I can make that a trend. Now you see why people are feeling some kind of way

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

that is appropriation right there. What not something right. When we think about one of the things that we highly recommend watching this YouTube video, we will link to it in the show notes. One of the major points that sensei makes in the beginning is that if you focused on equality first, like if we focus on making sure that black Americans were actually equal on a social, economic and political level, then desegregation and integration would have happened automatically. It would have already been done, right. And I think that's the thing that we really want to think about and figure out is it's not necessarily about going back in time and changing the laws or making different laws or better laws to desegregate people. It's a matter of, Okay, what can we do now to make sure that everyone's equal?

Dyalekt:

Well, and we is a bit of a broad term, when you're talking about we with terms of laws that requires a different set of people, we're making them what know what we socially can do. I think a lot of times we have used arts, we have used our education work and use community efforts to try to make it so that socially were able to be around each other and get along. But the thing that needs to change within all of us. I mean, the law makers too, but really, within all of us. Is that part about realizing who are in trouble who was being exterminated or who was being oppressed and focus on their problems, get to know them and do something about it. Right. So basically learn black stuff American

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, that's it.

Dyalekt:

We're gonna get all the way out the country. We're going to go to Santiago, Chile, it's not child, you know, good talk on the child people. No, no, there's folks that tried to say that child is a black Americans making fun of Chileans. It's a whole weird thing. Yes. There's a Santiago, Chile, for Simone squalo and pensamento collectivo with their song, Lowe's present test, and we'll be back in a second to talk about regions and testing and all of those good things that we Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, see, I had a whole point. No, we have a point at the things that we're doing. By the way, if you like to make rap songs about anything related to finance people, things like that, send them on over to us and we'll play okay.

Unknown:

parsimonious me friends on the school bus marry him. Are they still yucky? This is the sokola language

Dyalekt:

that Luna was saying cada momento por sus basadas el proceso

Unknown:

de vida. de ma la semana Serrano sell camino Korea somos amigos savasana Daniel de la Vina yes a Sega is

Dyalekt:

the owner of Mr.

Unknown:

Massey said Raja Demeter transparente mesmero grupo de los otros de la cabeza de cada uno de Vika, Sione Centro de La Scala SEPTA super important in Soto palace. Me Not about what I do get on

Dyalekt:

Welcome back. That was last rejected by Simone squalo and pensamento collectivo. And we're talking about the things that didn't work when it came to integration or desegregation really particular. Yeah. When we talk about segregation and desegregation that always brings us to schools. Yeah, because we're talking about businesses and the way people make money. But segregated schools are also a really hot button issue. As soon as folks got the ability to be recognized as citizens, and it continues to be a problem to this day, when we talk about why desegregation didn't work. Well, it works out in two ways. And let's talk about the first one right now. One, it didn't happen. Yeah, desegregation didn't really happen in New York City in particular, we are currently just as bad right now in terms of segregated schools as we were in 1965, which was 10 years after desegregation was made a thing in law. Now, there was a number of jumps, where there were a number of jumps, one that was from 1950s, to the 1960s.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Before 264, they made the legal efforts, right, right.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, there's some charts, I can throw these in the show notes, too, that would show that we went from 0% integration to about 23 ish percent integration by mid 60s. And it shot up to like, you know, getting closer to 50. And then by the time that became 1980s, and became around heading towards today, it's back down to 23.

Unknown:

How did that happen? So

Dyalekt:

first of all, it happened by through social means there was a lot of protests about how integration was going to happen. One of the big things that folks love to Gaslight people of color about when it comes to giving them repatriation for any sort of things that have been done to them is that it's difficult to just write, like, Yeah, what are we going to do that? How would we possibly give people back their land when other people have it now? That's just it's to patients? How will we even figure out how to calculate

Unknown:

anyway? Exactly. So

Dyalekt:

one of the things that happened immediately when it came to schools was how do we get these people from one area to another because people have been literally getaway? Yep. So the solution in the 60s was school busing, and making sure that they you may have heard by saying as a thing and not really know what it pertains to

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

happens in a lot of, you know, communities right now.

Dyalekt:

Well, I mean, it's still being proposed and a lot of communities right now that's the Blasio is plan to integrate new york schools because New York schools are some of the least integrated ones in the country, despite being this liberal haven where everybody is around everybody, because we're integrated on the subway.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

We sure are, but you know, we, the schools don't look like it, that's for sure.

Dyalekt:

I want to show a little imagery. We don't do a lot of like just pulling up images here. But since we're doing this on stream yard, since we'd be displaying this on spondylus Hey spondylus. By the way, I don't know if you know this, but you can check out these videos on demand on spawn pulex.org fantastic financial literacy based channel. But I want to share this image about how people protested against school busing because school busing was something that a number of families do protest in favor of and the counter protests by white families. Were disheartening to say the least. This is by Patrick burns of the New York Times. Check this out. So, Jim, don't

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

bust them.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, well, I thought was really interesting. First of all, you always see people with terribly misspelled signs at racist events. You see injured under Granger gration?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right under education. That's Hello. Check

Dyalekt:

it out. Education. Yes. intergration. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Also transportation. No. So what they're saying is we want kids to get educated. We want black kids to get educated. Of course, we're for integration.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

We're not racist, racist. But

Dyalekt:

you know, transportation seems like a bad thing. We shouldn't take people from one place to another, but transportation is the functional way. It's the only way it's the literal way to integrate. And you can see a little bit more of the way they try to play slip words in the bottom left corner, bottom right. It says ship cattle, not children. If you don't know anything about what's going on with this protest, and you see a session of nachos, what does it say?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It says to me, you're right, yeah, we don't want to treat children like cattle, right?

Dyalekt:

Yeah, we're using them as a children's game, right. You dare use as pawns kids as pawns in your political agenda, right. The exact same thing they said about the Parkland kids after the shooting? Yep.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep. It's all a political agenda. So the practical turned into the political all of a sudden, it was like the only way that you could do it, the only way you could practically integrate was to actually bus kids and transport them. And they said, No, we're not doing that.

Dyalekt:

Yeah. Well, there's political fight against it for many reasons that involve the dog whistles of racism. Yeah. When people were talking back then about it, they talked about crime. And now that it's 50 or 60 years later, almost. But something like that. When de Blasio was talking about using busing to integrate schools, the talk instead, you know, half a century later is about crime and money, not wanting kids to go to schools where they will feel out of their depth, because they're not like the other kids

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

out of their depth out of place. They're not like the other kid they won't fit in, is it all that kind of stuff,

Dyalekt:

generally seeing language that folks will be used to years, it's the main reason why schools haven't changed. The underlying reason why schools haven't changed is that they have a desire for uniformity. And desire for uniformity has a lot to do with their ability to stay homogenous. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, well, when you think about again, like the the effects of redlining today, and which what suburban, really good school districts look like in most of the country, they're mostly white neighborhoods. So by default, they're going to have mostly white kids in their school. Right? It's become an economic and class issue, when really it's still a racism issue. Yeah. Well,

Dyalekt:

I mean, it's explicitly still a race issue, because in those communities, when they do have instances of black teachers coming or black students entering they're met with extreme hostility. Yeah, I mean, I can say my light bright, damn near white behind when I was in a mostly white school, I was met with constant hostility because of it. And even farther back when they first started desegregating schools, where they were able to do so parents refused to send their kids to classes with black teachers. Yep. White parents, in particular, with white female children refuse to send their kids to classes that were taught by black men. Today, 2% of teachers are black men. Wow.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And let's look at the numbers because it's something that I never really put them up. Yeah, they're right here. Yeah, let's pull him up. Let's pull him up. Because that's the thing too, is when you think about it, so 76% of teachers are women. And 80% of teachers are white. And so the thing is, I think it is it's called the condition of education. Gotcha. Yeah. And this hasn't changed very much in 1999 versus 2,084%. of teachers were white in 2017 2018 79% of teachers were white. So nothing has changed in the last like 20 something years.

Dyalekt:

So the nomenclature, rather than saying that we have legally segregated schools, rather than saying that separate is equal, we say that we have stratified schools based on economic disparities stratified

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

schools. Wow, one of the thing that's really important about this is teachers advocate for their students and teachers advocate for students who they feel a connection with, and realistically teachers advocate for students that are probably similar race, similar backgrounds as them.

Dyalekt:

I don't know if I agree with that. No, I don't know if I care about any of that. That's real. And that happens at all. But that's not the reason why the reason why is that schools are brands, and these brands have a lot to do with your ability to move up the ladder. I played that song last resented because I was talking about that. regions, I was looking for some songs, I didn't find some ones in English about the regions tests that you have to take in New York in fifth grade, you got to take a test that determines your entire life when you don't do well on this test. You don't get into the right junior high school. You don't get into the right junior high school, you don't get into one of the three good high schools, right?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

in New York City.

Dyalekt:

Public Schools, it's Bronx science, Brooklyn Tech, and Stuyvesant.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right, right. So if you're a proud public school sending parent, that's what you're going for, right? Especially in New York, you're like, I believe in the public school system. All of that. You're right. Those are you know, the names of them. Yeah, everyone knows the names of everyone knows the names of them. Those are three out of how many public schools in New York City. Yeah,

Dyalekt:

I'm trying to find the numbers here. Here, Brad put them in the notes, right, by putting those together today. But they, in 2019, they had a crisis over at Stuyvesant High School, they had, you know, almost 1895 slots at Stuyvesant High School. And they've traditionally had about 10% black enrollment in Stuyvesant, which is still low considering the population in New York City. But out of 895 kids,

Unknown:

seven were black, seven, seven, not even 1%.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, it's one of those fun things about the idea of marriage and creating tests. One of the things that's a problem about testing, what's ill about all of this stuff is that these are not problems particular to segregation. These are fundamental problems. fundamental problems that are wrong with school today, whether it's public or private, is that testing is unequal, imbalanced and a poor indicator of future success. We test on the product, rather than the process and the way that we go about things. So folks don't actually learn anything, they just sort of get it right or don't get it right. It's all about outcomes. It's all about numbers. When you look at the regions test, when you look at the SI T's when you look at the standardized test, the standardized tests are generally created with white students that come from suburbs and have a possibly rural background going on in mind. I remember when I was first looking at the test that these 50 year old kids, fifth grade, fifth grade kids have to take where they were asking about it was a word problem related to math that was talking about tractor poles and what they could do. And I was like, these kids have never seen a tractor pull. They don't, they can't even grasp the thing that you're talking about. So yes, they're not going to do as well on these types of tests.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Wow, that's truly truly ridiculous. Well, I

Dyalekt:

mean, check it out. It has its big time basis, and everything we've done to make it so that black people can't do stuff, when they were first trying to make it so that black people weren't able to vote, when the voting rights stuff was going on. They were making tests. And they were these amazingly difficult tests that they gave to black people where they were asking them more that it's a joke that people say now for immigrants, right? It's more than the average American would be able to pass. Yeah, but they were given these insurmountable hurdles. So that, you know, some people would surmount them because, you know, black people shout out, you know, doing your, you know, that's where the whole black excellence thing comes from. But for the most part, folks are given these barriers so that less and less people are able to get through. Right, well, and

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

let's talk about the civil rights movement, right? Um, because that is right around desegregation started happening, black Americans who were employed by why employers, including professionals, like teachers, if they found out that they joined the civil rights movement, they could get fired, you were still allowed to get fired for whatever reason. And that's another reason that there's probably way less black teachers now is because of that. It's a good thing. We

Dyalekt:

didn't have canceled culture back then. Right.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Good thing. Good thing. Well, that's the thing, too, is, let's move on to you know, when it did work, right, when desegregation did work, one of the things that we talked about a lot is that desegregation did work in one way. So it did work. Yeah, it worked in the way that now black Americans were able to shop at White stores, they were able to purchase things from white companies. We talked last week about the racist history of insurance, and it was actually a status symbol for a black family to be able to own a policy from Prudential or MetLife, or whatever it is. So they flocked to why insurance companies to get their insurance instead of black insurance companies.

Dyalekt:

Yeah. And, you know, part of it has to do with anti blackness, it's forced upon all of us saying that, you know, we don't want to go to these places because they're inferior, but also there's something awesome about choice.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, right, and the ability to choose, and I think that's great. The problem is that white Americans did not patronize black businesses. So while black dollars left the black community because law in large hashtag.

Dyalekt:

Grandma did it. I know. Thanks.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. But you know, as we see, economically, that shit didn't happen on a large enough scale to keep black businesses around. More important.

Dyalekt:

There was a concerted effort amongst white people. We showed that one protest but there are all sorts of protests and all sorts of disinformation campaigns and stuff is not new amongst white People in their own communities to say that they should not go to these places that they will be roughed up that they will be treated unfairly. And a lot of times it's projection, we know that we've done y'all do it for so long, and we expect to get the same treatment back. Wow.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, yeah, I feel that there's this amazing article from Washington Monthly called the decline of black business. And one of the things that they really detail is that one of the reasons why the civil rights movement was so successful is because there were so many independent black business owners who were able to pool their resources and collectively allow people to use their places of business. There was one grocery store chain owner who actually funded an entire bus boycott, and like paid for people to get bused into work and things like that. Well, I

Dyalekt:

mean, one of the things about black economic power people talk a lot about we've got all these dollars. We build clubhouse and all these other things. It's always black economic power lies in the hands of the owner. It's not the consumers. Yeah. And when you have owners who are able to make purchases, because this is the same thing with celebrities, a lot of black celebrities are the ones who are given the mantle of paying for revolution, Aretha Franklin was known for paying for revolution. Prince was known for paying for education. Nowadays today, you got like Nicki Minaj, and Meek Mill paying paying people's their student loans.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Build the frickin school, we have a basketball player, we're expecting him to fund a public school, I'm saying

Dyalekt:

is because these are the ones who are the owner. They're the ones with real money. Yeah, we're not able to have that kind of economic voice. Because free speech is far from free. We're not able to have that unless we are owners of industry. Right. So this was happening in terms of the civil rights movement, these and continuing on passed the civil rights movement in the 70s and 80s. These black owned businesses were able to it's funny, you say pool your resources, because for the most part, people just call that a community. Right? Yeah, resources are pooled because it's it's a community that we have a community pool. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Exactly. Well, and the thing that happened, this is a staggering stat from the article. In 1985. There were 60, black owned banks providing financial services to their communities, there was 1616. Today, they're just 23. And one of the main destroyers of black owned banks was actually in 2000 2009. with Obama, right 2009 2010. In efforts to tighten up banking regulations, yeah, we've talked about reregulate, right, the banking Frank act, yeah, 2010, right. And what happened was, the regulation requirements became so difficult for small banks to keep up with it, a lot of them closed or merged or got acquired during that time. And basically, there was a 14% decrease in the number of community banks from 2010 to 2014. But there's a 24% decrease in the number of black owned banks during that time period in 2010, and 2014. So a lot of these policies that were enacted to, you know, prevent the too big to fail people. And all of those things also really ended up actually hurting smaller business owners and smaller banks in the process. Because no one really looked at this through like a racial wealth equity lens,

Dyalekt:

well, they just didn't look at it in entirety. That's the whole thing. Right, when folks often like to talk about how regulation will harm small businesses, right. And that's not necessarily true and doesn't have to be true. The thing about regulation is regulation can't simply be a set of penalties. Yeah. And in reality, it's not, there are a ton of subsidies in every

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

industry, you're incentivized, right? They incentivize

Dyalekt:

you. That's why they incentivize you to do the things that are going to make it so the industry grows and thrives together. So it's perfectly possible to create Dodd Frank act where you have limits on what these banks can do. But also have some help along the lines of the minimums that you get subsidy or you get some sort of help to make sure that you can get over the hump so that you can stay in business as you're starting. Right.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Like if you meet these regulations, you actually get some kind of funding, right, you actually get some kind of support if you're, you know, bank assets or below a certain amount or something like that. They didn't just take theirs didn't take that into consideration. They said, No, we gotta fix this recession. Here's

Dyalekt:

what we're gonna do. Same thing, like you're saying, with the segregating, they say, as long as we just passed a law saying it's all good, then it's gonna be all

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep. And that's, I mean, we're seeing it right now with COVID. Y'all, we're seeing it with this stimulus packages, we're seeing what these loans that are meant to support small businesses and communities of color, all of those things is the legislation passes, and there's no administrative infrastructure to actually execute it, or actually have time to think critically about how this is all supposed to work. Right. And as we continue to pass these things, and we don't think about it in this more holistic way, and we don't consider the lack of resources that so many marginalized communities have, were in the same place that we started and sometimes worse, like, that's what's been happening with these stimulus packages. That's why everywhere

Dyalekt:

Well, it was the cat who was like, oh, if you Get the stimulus check whether it's 1400 or 2000. It doesn't really mean much for you, right? Yeah, it's if you have bigger problems if that's gonna change.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Oh, you don't want to mention his name was Dave Ramsey. Oh, yeah.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, yeah. Dave Ramsey, he's the white dude who hates you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

He's the white dude who hates you, Dave Ramsey. All

Dyalekt:

I know about him is that he gets rich hating you that

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

he was like, too bad. You're not rich already. If $600 changes your life, then you're already bad. That's what he said. Yeah. So what's the point of these stimulus checks?

Dyalekt:

Yeah. And that's often been the case when it comes to people trying to make incremental change is the argument is, this won't solve everything. So don't do anything.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, yep. Yep. Exactly. And I mean, that's the, when we think about so many policies are put in place when we look at Obamacare, right? When we look at the Affordable Care Act, I think that, you know, there's if these kinds of things get watered down to the point that we just kind of have to take what we can get.

Dyalekt:

And when it comes to the taking, we can get can we back it up a little bit more about what you're saying about these banks that were closed down between the 80s and the 90s. And stuff that happened with that? Because one thing that's really difficult is we hear a lot of times in the black community, well, we just need to start having these staple industries. You can't just because we're talking about how like we're expecting to athletes and musicians and all that good things. And they say we just can't own that. We can't just have beauty salons, we can't just have the bodegas, we can't just have clothing stores, the ones that are traditionally seen in our community. Yeah, we have to be able to get into these other industries. The reasons why people will start a hair salon or start a clothing salon or start a barber shop is because they know how to do that. They have support and infrastructure for creating those types of businesses. Yeah. When it comes to building a grocery store or having a

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

bank or manufacturing the like style thing.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, shipping company, one of those be

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

building something like clubhouse.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, building something like clubhouse? Yeah, the amount of stuff that you're gonna have to have to get together just doesn't exist. And you are much more likely to lose out on that investment. If you park

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

started investing in those Oh, I want to talk about so Greenwood bank has been, you know, making the buzz. I think Killer Mike is back here right

Dyalekt:

back here.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And I've been seeing ads for him.

Unknown:

I don't know if he owns.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, I think we have to do more research on it. But I've just been seeing ads about and I've been seeing comments under it that say like, Oh, well, I heard that they're owned by white investors anyway, like, they're really just run by white people and all this stuff. And the thing that's so tricky for me, I'm so torn about is white people have all the money. Right? So if Killer Mike wants to start a bank, yes, he has some money, but he doesn't have enough to start a bank money. Well, and

Dyalekt:

the thing about it is he would have to ask when we mentioned like the bra, we'd have to ask like the same five or six, right? Like, oh, yeah, if he's gonna be creating a bank, that that kind of money, right. And that's one of the things about these things that happened in the civil rights era that we're seeking a little bit as we talk about integration is that these things work better when we are integrated. When we do have a multiracial shout out to jesse jackson for rainbow pushing. We do have a multiracial coalition, we are able to get more time. In fact, when we talk about integration in general, one of the things that scientists have studied and it's so annoying that people have to get paid to do multi year studies about this is that integration is better in your classroom. And in your office, they show that it makes offices more efficient and better at doing what they're doing. And it shows that students no matter their background do better when they are in an integrated environment. Everyone, the thing about it is, again, it's not because any of it works in a silo. It's not the integration works. Because if you put people who are different around each other, they're magically start learning from each other. Like it's a Disney special. It's that when you put the care into understanding, acknowledging and making space for each of these differences, you're also likely to put care into all the other differences that create an efficient system. Yeah, a productive place for learning.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That's exactly what happened. I mean, one of the things as I was, as I was starting brunch and budget, I talked about this all the time, over half of our clients are people of color. And so we've had to change our financial planning practices. And they're very different from what I did when I was in wealth management and the CFP courses that I took, I didn't learn any of this stuff under my CFP courses. And what I found is that we're better planners overall, because we know how to be specific to someone's individual needs. And we're able to actually scale that. And I think that when you really do take into account what people really need, and this is what inclusion really means, right? inclusion doesn't mean treat everyone the same. Inclusion means treat everyone how they need to be treated. I think that's the thing that we also lose sight of,

Dyalekt:

by the way, Mike is he does own the bank, but he does have white investors because he took money from lightbulbs to start it. Yeah, it's a catch. 22 Yeah, it really is. And it's one of the things that people love doing. It's what happened when the Black Lives Matter. protests were going on and people were giving money away. that there were folks who tended to be right wing who were saying, what was the thing that the lie they came up with that black lives matter was a shell game that was funding into the Democratic Party, which was Monday? Whoa, I don't know if you know that. The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, which a lot of people like to talk about the side of their necks was also described literally exactly as a shell game was taking money and paying out to his white liberal masters. That's the thing that they've been saying from jump about everything that's created for black liberation.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Okay, go to a song because I got to digest that.

Dyalekt:

digest that. So we've said a bunch of messy things about integration about disaggregation and what all of these things mean. So let's go to a song and then I want to talk a little bit, a little bit more about the implications, but we can get into what we can do about this. Let's do there's a lot going on here. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to a song that's about desegregation, it is desegregation, the actual proof crew from Raleigh North Carolina feature and be Tom Hardy not Tom Hardy Tom Hardy although that Tom Hardy can rap actually I've seen maybe if it is him and I'm wrong I don't know they might have gotten him on this track. But it's a dope joint produced by crisis dawn with all the y's and the H in the name dope producer will check you in a second

Unknown:

setting assassinate sculpt trigger fascinate fabricated I imagine they would say they crave a spotlight which is like sight when I'm feeling like I'm seeing it. And I believe I'm like the lungs must paint when a cool breeze on the winter cool freeze. Nobody moves nobody gets hurt. That's the line. Not breached. Nope, don't cross me across talk with me. Take a walk with me. It sounds that I'm waking up. Because I have like a Matador through went through life trust me yo. together like cloth and they fabricate the bra like they see so I buy pizza we keep those anticipating wolf in sheep's clothes we float into explain spending billions on NASA when in America compared to for Pampers for babies a half to learn on dilapidated campuses government funded programs pacify abandoned ship discouraged and abandoned ship puberty have a baby abandon it now everybody's having issues with abandonment just wonder why rap about random shit man listen I dare you to count me out killer trash off and I'm doing without a doubt stuffing in the coffin and bear because underground sealed the real hip hop you're never the one and only my competition is empty You don't know me but you hate me ever sent me no way you never crossed your weapons form to get teacher build a nation of stages let the water soak it up knowledge on its own full conscious so the atomic bomb and like imma drop and focus on smoking Charles Bronson Roman soldier what goes on behind the promise I'm so far at the same time I'm so go for peace piece of holy Shannon would call flows without trying Eazy E proposed a trading close to the precipice of a threat to the sovereigns when I walk in, they hide in like pitter patter like cartoon characters scattered chattering and rambling. mumbling punk style moves here like a walk in the Green Mile when the walls come tumbling down I'm in the end looking down into the ground my smart ass over this same sheet of gum on come on with the commodities down with that. believe the truth exists both lines have bridge gaps murdered time the riffraff get thrown off.

Dyalekt:

Well, as budget budget we back that was the Tom Hardy and actual proof with desegregation to track and you know, social desegregation isn't too hard to do because folks don't have to do a lot. That's the thing of it. You know, when we asked white folks like, Hey, we want you to be segregated, we want you to be around. They're like, cool. I'm already here, right? And socially, and socially, like, it doesn't seem that difficult. And it's one of the things where it's hard to talk about stuff. Like how desegregation didn't work, it was a bad thing, because there are plenty of folks who just look at it at face value, what they have right now. And they're like, well, Pam, and die, like, look at y'all, y'all are to ethnicity, and you're sitting next to each other. So everything is together, right? We have a spoiler for the folks who don't know, we haven't gone back and finished all of our stuff to find out how we started out in the show.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Go back looking for some, some love story.

Dyalekt:

No, love stories, just a hard love story. We love our peoples and you're trying to tell the truth about this money.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It's so true to anyway. But yes, yes.

Dyalekt:

What were we saying? We're saying that socially, it's actually really easy to talk about segregation. And it seems like it's a simple thing. But it's when people are not asked to give up anything. You are when you are asked to give up something that's when claws start to come out that poll that you were talking about where people were like, Yeah, well, it's fine. I think the integration is a great idea. But they haven't actually done it.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. Well, and they're the same people who are like, I don't need affirmative action is fair. They're the same people were like, Oh, this person only got hired because they were

Dyalekt:

black. It's easy to check these things out from a bird's eye view. When we were talking about before the break about how when segregation was happening. It was happening in schools. Yes. And that's continued unabated. And then when things were desegregated, you mostly saw that in terms of businesses, but that was only a one way street. That only helped out the people who already were making money and black businesses that were taking care of their communities started going down the drain.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep, yep. We're doing here already. Right. We're here. We're in the middle of a pandemic. There's a lot going on.

Dyalekt:

I mean, first of all, we got talked about the policy stuff. Yes. And I know like, we're not the ones in charge of it. But we're also the ones in charge of it. So we have something to do about it. So what can we do on the post? Sir? Yeah, I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

mean, I feel like that, you know, I talk about affirmative action a lot, because I think it's really important. And I talk about it a lot in particular, because I noticed that a lot of Asian American communities have also recently decided that affirmative action is reverse racism, right, is that they are being penalized Chinese Americans are being penalized Asian Americans are being penalized. You know, black and Latino students are the ones taking their spots at these universities and things like that. Thank you for setting me up. I

Dyalekt:

want to shout out a little bit more about Mayor de Blasio. Okay, so we've been talking about how in the past, you know, New York City segregated people fighting busing, and now they've got all these tests, and the tests are the problems that you only got seven kids going to Stuyvesant and all that. So one of the things that I am down with that de Blasio, the mayor of New York has been trying to push is cutting down on these tests. These tests are not the reason why people get into schools. And the pushback has been largely not only from white communities, but also from Asian communities who stand to lose half of their population who get these preferential placements.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. Yeah,

Dyalekt:

that's a lot becomes zero sum, especially for parents.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. Well, that's the visceral zero sum, right? Especially when it comes to like, these are the only good schools that are public schools in New York, I want my kid to have that spot, right. Yeah,

Dyalekt:

I know plenty parents who will say unabashedly, I would do whatever it takes to make it so that my kids get not only the good school, but the preferential school treatment over other kids,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

right. And I've thought about this a lot, especially now that we have a kid. And if I would react the same way. And if I would do something similar, I have had arguments with Asian friends about this. And if Ghani doesn't get into the school that he needs to get into, he's gonna be fine, right? He's gonna be fine, because he has other resources to be able to still get the education that he needs to get

Dyalekt:

well in school that needs to get to education that yeah, I mean, we are capable, have enough money and have enough time and have enough to two of us that we can make sure that he's educated. And when it comes to the name brands, well, once you have enough money, the name brands mean a lot, a lot less, they really do if they don't matter as much. You know, it's why kids who are from white families are much more likely to be able to take a gap year.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, and still come back. And no one's gonna question like, Hey, why don't you go to college right away?

Dyalekt:

Why not go to a name brand college because you want to stay in the community you were at?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, cuz it totally doesn't matter for you, you're still going to be able to show up to a job interview and submit your resume and use the connections that you have to get what you want and what you need.

Unknown:

So what can you do? Well, I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

want to I want to go back to your question about policy because I think our brains automatically go to federal and state policy and even local policy, right? But what about the policies in your workplace? What about situations and communities and organizations that you can directly directly affect? Well, I just thought about myself while you were talking because I realized that Like, for instance, like the the idea of diversity and inclusion, especially in 2020, with Black Lives Matter movements and things like that incorporations became a hot thing, right? And the policy became like, you know, let's have workshops. Let's have talks, let's educate our white employees about it. Right? When can you affect policy in the way that like, yes, you do have to interview a certain number of candidates of color? Yes, you do have to hire a certain number of candidates color, can you affect that change within your workplace, where the business doesn't have to be black owned or minority owned or anything like that. But the actual employees are asking to change the policy and they're asking for something more inclusive? Can you make that change in your workplace? Can you ask for that in your school? Can you find different places where there are policies that are in place, that you can actually affect change? And it doesn't have to be on the political level? It can be in your community, it can be in your workplace?

Dyalekt:

Yeah, well, and that's how the community is grown. One of the things about Black History Month we've been going back and forth on the show, and then the stuff that we're doing, it's like to should be focused on Black History Month, it's anything for that matter. And the big thing that I realized about a Black History Month is I get the same thing from the same people every year, I was thinking about it. When the video game folks that I see on the internet, they started shouting about Jerry loss. And every February they talk about Jerry loss. And if you don't know who he is, and you don't really know gaming's history, because he is known as the father of modern modern gaming, and can't say anything today, the father of modern gaming, Jerry Lawson, they only talked about him in February, if there was no Black History Month, they would never talk about them at all. So bare minimum is what we have to start with. And that's the thing that we build our foundation on and build from that.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, yeah. So even though what you're saying is that even though it sucks that we only talk about Black History In February, we talk about it.

Dyalekt:

Yeah. And as it comes to your workplace, that little bit, that seems like not enough, it is enough. Yeah, more you talk about it, the more you push the edge, the more the center moves to and the more you're able to affect change by being change. Yeah, Octavia Butler's parable of the sower where God has changed, because change is the only thing that stays the same. But about you to take back. What can you do? Yeah, I mean, remember Wall Street bats a couple of weeks ago, remember that we are more coordinated now than ever. So be an influencer influence things by spending your money, where you value, put your money where your mouth is, and spend the money on the people you value and the people who value you will do the same. No Corporation stopped having customer service. And in a lot of cases, they stopped having quality service and quality products, because like, the vocal complaints really didn't affect their bottom line. It was too few. But you know, nowadays, we have enough people to mobilize, talk about the things that don't work and organize not only by boycotts, but by cops as well. ones where we can patronize the businesses that we want to see thrive. I mean, even buy stock in a company that you believe in, that's one of those old school things is like I buy and be a part of a company because I believe in the company. Well,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

that is the original intention of taking a company public, right is like asking shareholders who care about this stuff. If I

Dyalekt:

know them, it's asking folks to take a real life risk instead of just a financial. Yeah, yeah, the root of all of the segregation stuff before we get out of here is monopoly. One of the things that cause these policies to be to take over black businesses in the 80s. And the 90s was the lack of prosecution of monopolies that went from about 100 or 500, a year in the 70s to about 100 ish a year today.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Wow. So those antitrust laws aren't even being enforced anymore.

Dyalekt:

The root of all oppression is anti black racism in the United States. When it comes to economic stuff. Maybe there's other things for other stuff. When it comes to economic stuff, it always comes back to anti black oppression, and the way that they did to black businesses as how squeezed them out, when Walmart first came around was squeezing out businesses like businesses were the first ones to go. And as they go, so goes the rest of the country. So that's the way it goes. And we're going to take you off for one more song here, that's going to leave that hanging in the air because that's really the the final conclusion of all of it. And we're gonna do something a little bit different. I'm going all the way out to Mozambique, for a song called on the way from artists code on the way up for a song about segregation. And it's a little bit different musically than we like to get down with. But this one it really bangs and I was feeling the stuff they're saying. So we're going to go a little bit different this time. Again, please feel free to send songs whenever you've got them. And we're gonna check you next time when we talk a little bit more, but brunching and budget on the way with segregation check you next time.

Unknown:

My childhood behind me man that made it I say allow never bad dream Are you my dad?