Brunch & Budget

b&b243: It's Not that You're Lazy, It's That They're Lying to You

March 08, 2021 Brunch & Budget
Brunch & Budget
b&b243: It's Not that You're Lazy, It's That They're Lying to You
Show Notes Transcript

You know the Lazy Susan(tm)? The mini Gravitron where your sauces or spices turn for everyone at the table? Why is it lazy, and Why Susan? Markus Krajewski, professor of Media History at University of Basel, Switzerland, and author of The Server: A Media History from the Present to the Baroque says, "In all probability, Susan was a generic name rich homeowners addressed their maidservants with through the 18th century. "Laziness was a common complaint against servants (at the time), so ‘lazy Susan' must have been a usual term since the 18th century,"

THESE ASSHOLES HAVE BEEN CALLING WORKERS LAZY AS LONG AS WE’VE HAD WORDS!!!

"Villain" has origins in stereotyping farmhands as "lazy"
Africans were enslaved because they were "lazy"
Mexicans are paid lower wages because they’re "lazy"
Nobody wants to raise the minimum wage for fry cooks because our financial system has a vested interest in seeing servants as "lazy" so we can justify becoming overseers.

Placing ostensibly reasonable words over untenable practices is the same ol’ okey doke. This week we talk about the myth (yes MYTH) of Personal Responsibility. It’s not what you think it is.

You are not lazy. You are not stupid. You are not alone.

Music Featured in this episode:
Lazy I by D Real
Kein Stress! by Lazy L
Pirata Sem Tesouro by Lazy

Dyalekt:

When your debt snowball is pushing a boulder up the hill and you're looking over your shoulder because creditors have no children they're lying to you on social you're just looking for something real get with brunch and budget will help you share when other folks will tell you to steal. This is brunch and budget the show about personal finance and racial economic inclusion. Your host, certified financial planner and accredited financial counselor here to help take the bite out of your budget. budget as part of the base and wealth Podcast Network. I'm your sound provider dialect. And here's your host, Natalie capacitor. Thank you, Diane.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Thank you everybody, for tuning in today.

Dyalekt:

Thanks for tuning in. For those y'all who are watching us on spawn do let's just up a little bit because you're supposed to be personal and responsible also personal and responsible. It's the pandemic so like the terms of responsibility is like if it's only for the top half, I'm still wearing sweat pants on. Zoom, responsible zoom responsible try responsible although, you know, my hair was frizzy today, right and I wanted to leave yours I want to talk a little quick moment in my bio, getting back on my hair high horse. Oh, my hair high horse. there been a lot of discussions lately in the black community talking about how people with curly hair, like mine have dominated the discussions about discrimination in hair. And I think that that's a really important thing. folks who have Michael flexion and micron of hair have often talked about that we've experienced bullying or being treated unfairly or discrimination when it comes to our hair. And that's cool. And all of our experiences are real and valid. But centering ourselves takes away from the actual point. And the actual point that this is anti blackness. The fact that we get messed with with our curly hair is a subsidiary of the discrimination that people with foresee hair face whenever they try to get a job when they're told that their hair is inappropriate kids in school. I mean, you know, I used to live in the Caribbean when I was a kid. And it was a little bit different because it was a majority black place. But we also had that about dreadlocks about you couldn't get a job. You weren't considered trustworthy, all types of things. And it's really important for us to know too rapidly. Yeah, it's really important for us to be able to share our stories and understand that our stories are real and valid. But when I used to get into fistfights about my hair, when I was a kid in school, I didn't live in the VI when I was in Pennsylvania, they said I had N word hair. They didn't say anything because I was curly, because I was frizzy. They use words like nappy which actually didn't apply to my hair because they were angry at my relationship or my adjacency to the blackness that they fear and that they hate. And I think when we talk about this stuff, and I feel like I know what you're gonna bring in when we talk about these kinds of things. We should remember that our stories are real and valid but also get to the root of things as we unearth the root and we can get everybody free of the tree from you want to bring it

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

well. I mean, Abercrombie and Fitch they found a loophole around actually banning

Dyalekt:

dreadlocks. Wait, wait, wait. Abercrombie and Fitch ban dreadlocks.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

The way that they were able to hire people who looked a certain way is instead of calling them store clerks or cashiers or anything like that. They call them brand ambassadors. So brand ambassadors, they were allowed to actually specify what they wanted them to look like. And that included the type of hairstyle the weight so

Dyalekt:

brand ambassadors select their influences like their actors, like their performers, yo artists Yeah, artists always remember the discrimination that we face and the types of hardships that they give us or a blueprint for what they want to give every other type of

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

work for real

Dyalekt:

Tony will give you the restrictions of being a movie star and you ain't even a movie star

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, yeah. And you're getting paid minimum wage at a fucking store the ball like come on you're able to do that they were able to legally do that.

Dyalekt:

I love Oh, can you release a distract years later? Because now now like, like grocery shopping, like them, but you know, listen, listen.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

So today, we're talking about the myth of personal responsibility. It's not that you're lazy, it's that they're lying to you, right

Dyalekt:

and even this thing with you know, your hair, being natural your hair be an algae or being in a way that conforms to a religion.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

It's your fault. Your hair is inappropriate and unkempt and long. And you know, whatever else they're saying, right? You just fix your hair, and we'll give you the job.

Dyalekt:

Let's get into this thing about personal responsibility. Because like on the surface, just like on the surface, a lot of these arguments about error and stuff, it sounds like a plausible thing. It's like, Hey, you need to be responsible for yourself, you need to take care of Yeah, that's an important thing. But oftentimes, it goes too far to the point where we're expected to be the one for saving the world. And we can't actually do that. So we blame ourselves. When I heard only you I'm maybe dating myself here, but when I heard only you can prevent forest fires. I

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

was a lot of pressure. You weren't even at the forest. Somebody else

Unknown:

adult who goes about

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

it was like a frickin bear who said you you dialect little baby left,

Dyalekt:

you're the only one and the same thing. That same point is the same point that entice people to join the military to help out their country. We had politicians have been pushing this on all sides of the political divide. You know, you had your ronald reagan who said, one cannot govern themselves, how can they be expected to govern others? And that's the republican right wing thing so that the liberals would be a little bit different. But don't forget, Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country. That's everybody's favorite Kennedy.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yo, listen, personal responsibility.

Dyalekt:

Maybe not everybody's favorite Kennedy. I mean, shout out to Jamie. Yeah.

Unknown:

Shout out to Jamie.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

If you think about it, and the way the personal responsibility to spring individualism is framed in this country, it's rooted in capitalism and capitalism is rooted in extracting labor from you without giving you anything back, right. Because personal responsibility, especially when it comes to finance, and when it comes to personal finance, it even says personal finance, in the name is all about, you figure it out, you don't make any mistakes. If you make any mistakes, it's your fault. It has nothing to do the system, the system works perfectly. And you're the reason why you're in this mess.

Dyalekt:

And there's a little bit of pessimism in it too, because it's like, sometimes they'll say the system is corrupt. And the system is bad, right? But you can't do anything about it. We often talk about that. Yeah, the move that you can make within these harmful systems.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right, right. And one of them that often gets translated to if you weren't smart enough, if you didn't know better, if you didn't get the right education, then that's the reason why the racial wealth divide exists,

Dyalekt:

that you're lazy. They've been saying that we're lazy since the beginning, everything we had in the advertisement for the show. But we I looked up on a whim what a lazy Susan was because I was like, we're talking about personal responsibility. We talked about laziness and all that sort of see, like, let me see. And of course, it comes out to predictable results. Susan, according to scholars weren't the type of names just a typical name that a commoner would have someone who would have a job as a servant. And as we all know, servants are described as lazy in every point in history. The The reason that there was an excuse to enslave Africans was that they were inherently lazy people. The reason why it was okay to take away things from Native Americans is that they're inherently lazy people who just sit around with nature. The reason why they say that poor people shouldn't get a bigger wage today. They say that fast food workers are lazy. so lazy susan comes from then creating a piece of technology little piece of circle. Oh, look, it gets to replace our lazy servants whose whole job is to serve us day in and day out what? So not only are poor people blamed for being lazy when they're really working hard, but also automation is blamed on poor folks.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

The reason why automation exists is because we're all lazy. So you just lose your job, Susan. That's it. It's over. It's over all

Dyalekt:

wrong. My name is not Susan.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Wow, wow. So we talk about the racial wealth divide a lot on this show. And the racial wealth divide has a lot to do with the myth of personal responsibility, because a lot of people say the racial divide exists because there is a lack of personal responsibility in the black community in particular, right. And so we did some digging, of course, and we found this really amazing report that was done by Duke University on what we get wrong about the racial wealth gap. And the thing that it really highlights are these things that we point to, right. We're like, well, if this happened, this would fix the racial wealth divide if more black people went to college, right, if they got more higher education, if they got better jobs, right,

Dyalekt:

it's another stereotype. Yeah, black people and not just black people, black adjacent people as I was talking about the hair and for people I thought of as super great.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Exactly. So if they were able to get better jobs based on their higher education, if they were able to buy homes right homeownership is the path to closing the racial wealth divide well,

Dyalekt:

because you know, the when you talk about model minorities as Asian folks, they get all this education. Right. And that's why they have housing. That's why they community right. That's, that's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

not why. But that is what they say. Right? The other thing is a lot of people have been saying especially recently, and I guess, for all time that if you bank black or you buy black that will close the racial wealth divide, right if the money stays in the community, which is plausible, because you

Dyalekt:

talked about last time about the myth of segregation. Yeah, yeah. How desegregation didn't end up working out for folks. Okay. So if we try to fix that by black folks, then that's really interesting. Yeah, no, sorry.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

The other thing is entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is a big thing. Going along with buying black or baking black is if there were just more black entrepreneurs that would fix the racial wealth divide, right

Dyalekt:

and I think we want to see Is that all of these together are what we find necessary to actually make some change?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yes. It's not just one thing. And then really the one of the bigger myths is that if black people just save more money, right, if there was a greater emphasis on saving and black households, if there was a greater emphasis on personal responsibility, this report actually called out the phrase because that phrase is often used as a dog whistle against actually passing policies that would promote wealth redistribution. And when I say wealth redistribution, I mean, fucking reparations. Y'all.

Dyalekt:

Pull up my on social media, I was having a chat, because you know, I'm fancy like that with the CEO of ncrc, the National Reinvestment Coalition. And he's talking about what they just put out a report about, there's a 20 to 30% divide between black and white homeownership rates that has persisted for more than 100 years. And this isn't new. news report. Yeah, yeah, reach a 60% black homeownership rate within the next 20 years, the number of new black homeowners each year would need to triple. That's what the report has and talks about it. So I engaged with them and I was talking to him about like, hey, that's going to take a lot of policy change, right? It's not just gonna be that and the cat whose job it is to know about this, and it's just a white person. Oh, yeah. No, in their background, said yes. And reparations. Specifically, that's what's gonna happen because we need money to build the place where there's no money you can't save money if you don't have money.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, you just can't. Everybody says

Dyalekt:

that what's happening?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, I think so.

Dyalekt:

We got a number of songs that we this time that we're gonna be talking about laziness, and funny enough I couldn't find maybe this has to do with the USS hustle culture. There weren't as many artists from the US talking about others than by saying everyone else is lazy but me I hustled very hard in other countries we got stories and songs about this well i'm going to share this cat from Adelaide Australia the real with the song lazy eye and y'all check that for three minutes and change and we'll be back do the lazy

Unknown:

lazy guy stay straining for hard to see through the haze inside has taken time for days no phrase to make the van or Paper Chase a my pace the plan on how to like how can I stay for club a plate bluffs in a price in mind, leaving Dostum away for hon I've been at cost and a flame the marks and people fast but oh by God, by God, plugging into modifying Starbuck a sacred from the center of a winery. Man you told us in that fellas that I might have seen every day by the street thank you for five please that was selling can we ready for the fun of things finally usually kept the quiet or saliva free ain't no sign of fatigue is seeing the sign on me for my release space gas the Mona Lisa rotten piece lazy guards strain and try hard to see for the hazing side is taking time for days to make the fun of paper chaser my pace to clog your lazy strain and try hard to see through the haze Assad has taken time for days no brace to make her lazy lazy lazy guy you get price of Tom Feist in favor of as described by his patrons the profit of a nation tainted arrangement science and science you could find information is endless patient information and a brain sick decay mind state state data fake business right breaches broomstick fright pitches, shape shift and stake drift and paint snippets claims different heard he was too polite superduper nice when he used to mock interviews Come on. Hang him fine. So FLAC suicide choosing sides who have given up a silver life chose to fry bronze butter candles like joining snorting lines from the sands of time I always like when a man or lazy guy is like in life. Lazy God strain and try hard to see through the haze and sod is taking time for days. To make the part of Paper Chase on my pace to clog your lazy job strain and try hard to see through the haze inside has taken time for days to make the lazy, lazy, lazy guy claiming I'm not quite to them harder to make a negotiation, proper arrangements dollars and payments offers from famous scholars and masons toxic candidates gotta pick infectious Oscar for thought law property gets back this was too big expect that at any second deadly brackets representative up and stop my head a bit for not good smoke good for brainstorming when it's raining old take your state tournament that was a problem that many get any give any rip properly swallow a whole bunch of the henney have a book or a column with semi either call it a tent mygekko corner with your point of distress me get lazy got to go play can chime pray can now at this time they take me alive, lazy sprain and try hard to see through the haze inside is taking time for days to make fun of paper chaser my paste o'clock, lazy strain and try hard to see through the haze inside has taken time for days. No race to make the class lazy, lazy,

Dyalekt:

lazy, bi d real heroes oh he said lazy art and said I like a lazy eye and then strain and try is an actual lazy eyes when your eye doesn't work. So your other eye has to be more work. So even while talking about laziness talks about how much more work he got to do.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Wow, he didn't think about the fact that that's why they call it a lazy eye. It's not it's lazy.

Unknown:

So the word disability disabled.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, so disabled is not a lazy eye. language. It's everywhere, y'all. Wow. And laziness is so villainized. Right?

Dyalekt:

Yeah, you know, one of the things. I don't have enough here, but when I was researching this, we looked in Psychology Today to look up the idea of laziness. And they have these really interesting distinctions between laziness, procrastination and idle. They're actually psychologically very separate things with separate routes and separate ways to get out of laziness is more of a feeling than even a seed of being Oh, wow. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

right. like humans can be lazy. We can feel lazy, right. But yeah, Wow, that's so interesting. Okay.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, that's all an extra.

Unknown:

That's a whole

Dyalekt:

different show that they've been our fans.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, no, exactly. No. So I want to go through, in particular this report and how they break down all of the different reasons that people state for how to close the racial wealth divide, right? Because the thing is that the racial wealth divide was not caused by your own individual, like lack of personal responsibility. It wasn't caused by lack of education, or it wasn't caused by like you not having a good enough job or anything like that. So the first thing I want to dispel and just talk about again, and again, and really like drive home is the difference between income and wealth, incomes, your ability to earn money, and wealth is your ability to accumulate that money, right. So with income, you can earn income, but it could just all have to go out the door for whatever reason, and especially with PLC, we know that PLC are more likely to have student loan debt. And you'll see you're more likely to be sending money back home, a generation PLC are less likely to have a history of homeownership in their family, you're less likely to have a safety net and my family often they are the safety of their family. So if you're making more income than your parents ever have, you're probably taking care of more finances, you have more financial obligations than someone else who has wealth in their family. Because the other thing is that wealth begets well, right? So when it comes to wealth, and when it comes to building wealth, when you're starting from scratch the road to building wealth is long. It takes a lot of sacrifice. It takes a lot of luck, and it takes a lot of Yeah,

Dyalekt:

well I just wanted to pick up on the words what was the last word you're gonna say? Thanks a lot.

Unknown:

Oh, I forgot already.

Dyalekt:

Said sacrifice sacrifice really triggered me to a point because this thing people talk a lot about how sacrifice is what's going to get you rich? And no, it's not. That's not what sacrifice means. You don't sacrifice means is gonna get you killed for the benefit of others.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And yeah, I mean, that's the other thing too, is when you're the first in line to be building generational wealth. You are sacrificing yourself in a lot of ways, right. And I think that's the reality about the parents. You know, when

Dyalekt:

folks talk about like, my parents worked really hard, and they had this terrible job that they hated that broke their back and now they're old and retired and they can't even travel tired and broken it down so that I could get somewhere Yeah, the pressure on kids don't start out with a lot and this is across racial barriers when you can see commonalities and all the colors like we can't just do whatever. Yeah, you can't Zuckerberg it and be like, I'm gonna drop out and start this whole broken back for you. They

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

sacrifice yo Zuckerberg is celebrated for dropping out of college. The black kid drops out of college. What are they lazy? Yeah, right. Right. See the difference? See the difference? It's all coded language. I

Dyalekt:

mean, even black kids who are in college right now. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

So let's talk about college. Right? Let's talk about higher education because you know, those

Dyalekt:

spaces where kids get to do whatever they want in

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

college, that's what it's supposed to be there for. Right? No,

Dyalekt:

it's not supposed to be there for I mean, that's just what it's called. Yeah. Again, as we say that education isn't a silver bullet, they still want to undermine the folks who are trying to go through.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. So let's talk about higher education. The big myth around education in general is that black families don't emphasize education as much as white or Asian families. black families, actually dollar for dollar when you control for household type and socioeconomic status, actually tend to be more financially supportive of their child's education than white

Unknown:

families.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

So what does that mean exactly? That means that through direct financial support, black families actually placed more financial emphasis on education than white families, do they spend more money on education, they spend more time on education, or they spend more resources on education per dollar than the average white family? Does? That is huge, right? And so that completely right there dispels that myth. So okay, black families are sending their kids to college, more black women to go into college than ever they're going more black women are going to college than any other socio economic demographic out there. So what does that translate to dollars wise? Shall we pull up a chart, lesson charts,

Dyalekt:

and charts and see what we got here?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, because higher education is supposed to lead to closing the racial wealth divide, right? Because higher education is supposed to lead to those better jobs and more income and higher net worth,

Dyalekt:

maybe that's why we're not seeing as many black woman Hollywood on SNL and all that stuff, because they're busy in college, they're

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

busy. They're in college or in college.

Dyalekt:

That's what's going on. Right? So what we got here, here's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

the real number. Let's take a look. If you look at the average white family's net worth, yeah, if you look at the average family's net worth, right, and if you look at the less than high school diploma, that means that this white family, this white person did not graduate from high school, their net worth of 82,968 is more than a black person who graduated with a college degree, their net worth is 70,219.

Dyalekt:

So so a high school dropout, on average, we're talking about not the mean here, but median. Yeah, they are making 12 grand more than average net worth is 12. Actually, that's even more important. their net worth is 12. Grand higher than a black person who has graduated,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

they have more wealth. Yes, yeah. And that's due to a lot of factors, right? The biggest factor is student loan debt. So the cost of college education has grown faster than inflation over the last 2030 years. Now, inflation to 3% a year, that means the cost of goods goes up about two 3%. The cost of college has been going up 5% a year, year over year, by the time our kid goes to college college and cost half a million dollars to go to

Dyalekt:

that's that's a lot of college. That's

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

a lot of college. Yeah, that's a lot of debt, right? And so if things continue the way they are, because so many black Americans are also saddled with more student loan debt, and their net worth can start off at a hugely negative amount when they finish college, but college supposedly to a better job. Right?

Dyalekt:

Right. Well, that's why you did it. That's the thing where you're taking the hit and supposed to be worth it. Right? That's the thing about the self sacrifice part where it's not just your parents sacrifice, so you could get ahead, which I get that that's the part of it. But then they're saying for you to sacrifice so you can get ahead. And that doesn't always work out because self sacrifice means that the person who benefits also the person who gets the hit. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

exactly. Well, and then we talked about the difference between income and wealth. Right, right. And the idea of, Okay, well, if I'm making the same amount of money as my white peer, right, then I should have the same ability to accumulate wealth, right, that's the person responsible for making the same amount of money, I just have to be just as responsible with my money as my wife here. The reality is that PLC and black Americans in particular, have more financial obligations than their white peers, they're less we mentioned at the top of the show, they're less likely to have a history of homeownership, less likely to have wealth in their family that is generational, they're able to tap into in case something goes wrong, right. And for the most part, the starting salaries and the salaries in general, there's an income gap already that exists on top of that, it probably took you longer to get to that income level than your white here. So you have you have to spend more time getting that income and that means less time to actually build that wealth on top of everything else. So better job doesn't actually lead to more network. Let's pull up another chart.

Dyalekt:

Alright, let's get more charts because it's because it still sounds like I can magic blood son of a jet. My way, if I just put my nose to the grindstone and work

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

hard, you make the right amount of income if you do all the right things within that, what does that look like? Right? And so this chart shows the median household net worth by race and compared to household income quintiles. So

Dyalekt:

also income quintile that's just getting fat.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, so this is basically the four different levels of income or five, it looks like this but the basically the 305 Yes, Quinn five, yes, the five different levels of income. And I want to look at the second to the highest one, the second to the highest one is 75,000 to 120,000. And if you look at this chart, you see that for white Americans making between 75,000 $220,000 their net worth his $200,000, compared to a black American making the same exact salary, their net worth is $83,000. So

Dyalekt:

when they say work twice as hard to get half as much it wasn't correct. It was more like to get 40% of Yeah, so even half as much. Yeah, that's messed up, because I always thought that, you know, my aunts and uncles in them was exaggerating by saying, nope, nope, they

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

were underselling it. Everything they're understanding,

Dyalekt:

it's so ill Well, we can get the stats that backup the personal stories that everybody is

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

always told. And that's what's so powerful about these stats. And I think that people have taken have taken them and work them into this whole, like personal responsibility rhetoric, right? And so when we look at these stats, and we break it down, where it's like higher education is not closing the racial wealth divide better jobs are not closing the ratio outside. What about homeownership is homeownership closing the racial wealth

Dyalekt:

divide, right? Because homeownership is something that's definitely been kept out of black people and people of color hands for a really long time policy, all sorts of nefarious tactics, that lie digital redlining, all that?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Well, it's you and a lot of Americans, actually most of their wealth is in their home. And it's usually the biggest asset that you're going to purchase in your lifetime. And so the thing is that black Americans with positive wealth do actually tend to have more of their assets be within homeownership. But that's not actually a good thing. The reason why is because white Americans who also own homes also have other assets. So black Americans who own homes don't have the additional bandwidth to actually invest in other assets as well. They put all of their extra resources into actually owning this home. So more of their net worth is based in essentially an illiquid asset, something that it's difficult to tap into, you have to sell to actually make liquid, all of these things when it comes to homeownership. This is another reason why homeownership is not going to close the racial wealth divide. Because when black Americans invest all their money into it, then they don't have the ability to actually put money in other assets. They don't have the extra resources to do it.

Dyalekt:

So you're saying that black Americans have a diversity problem.

Unknown:

They do.

Dyalekt:

Talk about diversity, diversity, and all that. And yeah, the diversification of investments is the thing that makes it so that none of the investments hit you as hard. Yeah, that's the whole point of it, right? The stock market is be invested in 10,000 stocks, so that if one company goes out of business, it doesn't really bother you.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. And well, now let's look at if White Americans don't own homes versus black Americans who don't own homes, right. But what this study found was that white Americans who didn't own homes still have 31 times more wealth than the average black American who didn't own a home. So here's the thing, if you look at it, the numbers show that the average white family who owns a home, their net worth is $239,000, the average black family owns a home, their net worth is $99,000,

Dyalekt:

which is again, consistent what we were talking about. What's interesting is that it's much closer than the nominal. I mean, it's still a huge goal. But this is what we say about like people are saying that yeah, these things will help change because they are good things they do and they can improve.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, they do help close the divide a little bit. But not just homeownership is not just the answer. Because if you look at non homeownership, the average wealth of a black family is $120. If you don't own a home, and the average wealth of the white family is 30 $700. And that really tells you that when black families own homes, that is where most of their assets are.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, right. You don't By the way, we've mentioned this before, but when someone's checking us out for the first time, it's like, well, hey, you're talking about the black families and white families. What about Latino Latino families? What about Asian families? Raise your fan, families? family. So what's the deal with that? And first of all, we wanted to mention that we often talk about things from the black white paradigm because that's the blueprint for how oppression is done throughout this country with everybody. And also specifically when we talk about Asian people, not only is it under reported, but folks also skewer wrong color lines. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

they really do. The thing about Asian Americans is a monolith is it tells the wrong story, right? It's not correct because Asian Americans also have colorism. And in that colorism, they also have a very stratified economic divide

Dyalekt:

just within Asians. And then we're talking about different countries then having also different economic situation. So it's hard to keep all of those things together. It makes it so it's really messy whenever you start trying to put these things,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

and it's the similar thing with the Latino community, right. It's a very similar thing of like when you walk When you look at these groups as just these, like broad groups, it's really hard to actually like dig in. And so I think when we understand the black white paradigm, like Derek was talking about, we start to understand the things that we can do to actually push policy forward that will actually benefit all of us. Because I

Dyalekt:

mean, policy, again, is one of the things that got us here.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, exactly. Speaking of homeownership and policy, you know, we talk about this on the show all the time. But let's talk about redlining. Right, and let's talk about government sanctioned redlining, the government invented redlining, the FHA,

Unknown:

the

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Federal Housing Administration in the 1930s. During the New Deal, they basically were subsidizing white homeownership. And the way they did that was they said, Hey, mortgage lenders, we are only going to back this mortgage, if you lend this money to a white family who's going to be in this neighborhood. They literally boxed out black families completely.

Dyalekt:

I mean, mind you, they, I don't know if they actually box them out, because basketball wasn't invented. But they didn't say white families only they said Americans only and that's the thing. Whenever you hear people talk about Americans, hardworking Americans, middle class Americans, real americans, they're often talking about white Americans hoping that you'll not notice what they're saying, because of the discrimination that's happening,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

right. And I mean, let's talk about today, right? Because that discrimination is real, when a lot of black neighborhoods, their home values are depreciated because of racism as well. So there's article that came out in the grieux. And it came out literally two weeks ago, February 15 2019 to 2021. This black couple got an appraisal done for their home, they are planning to sell it to they put $400,000 in renovations into the home renovation, a lot of renovate that's like the whole fucking house. And so they came back and the appraiser came back and the appraisal thing that for only $100,000 more than what they originally got to appraise for when they bought it.

Dyalekt:

Well, first responsibility will tell you that they did the wrong type of renovations and they actually fail. You take a risk when you do things and sometimes the risk doesn't work out. Right. That's what happened right? For 100 pounds.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

he bailed the renovation. Oh, they messed up, right? They put all the

Dyalekt:

like they made the floor out of thumbtacks.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right, that must be what happened if personal responsibility is they built a sinkhole like what the hell could you have done? Right. So the thing that happened was they actually they applied for a reappraisal and they had a white friend poses the homeowner when they know what the appraiser and the appraisal came back at $493,000 higher than the original appraiser.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, this reminds me of the Greg and Emily tests for about when he was sending out resumes with quote unquote ethnic sounding names, that people were less likely to get a call back than if they use names like Greg and Emily more Eurocentric sounding names. Yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

so even owning a home as a black American, the chances are that they're undervaluing your home because you're black. Yay, homeownership is not the monolith savior of all time, either

Dyalekt:

no longer listed all these things. Can I list out something myself? I found a good list.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Oh, okay. I'm ready. I'm

Dyalekt:

sillier. So the I found this list of the most impressive acts of laziness in history. And one of my favorite one was by the people who compile the Oxford English Dictionary. It's like a big deal. You know? Like, oh, Ed, hell yeah. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

He's in there. I remember the year that they put GE in though.

Dyalekt:

Okay, cool. I didn't know that. He was in that. Sure. When they first put together the Oxford English Dictionary the first time for free je.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Je the very first edition.

Dyalekt:

It was about 200,000 words or more words, right. So they gave them 10 years to make it because yeah. Oh, yeah. It was, was it it was 1797 89. So it was at 97. So they had a little time to put it together. 10 years to do it. After five years. They checked in with them. And they realized they had only gotten this far as the word and so they said, Hey, we even get through all the AIDS. No, not even. So they kept on working to said keep on doing your thing. Keep on doing okay, do you tell us at 972 79 we're all so I'm 87 nine is supposed to be done by 8089. Right? At 89 came around, they were not done at 99 came around. They were not done party and like that and everything they didn't actually finish the Oxford English Dictionary until 1928 is like basically a generation past where the proverbial you went through the Depression was like almost

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

the First World War. There's a lot of stuff called debt a whole a whole millennium. A

Dyalekt:

lot of changes happen. So what happened was, as soon as they finished, they had to go Back to work on the second tone right away. We didn't get fired, fired. They got to spend a generation building up

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

to it and they didn't get fired.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, you know, here let me let me show you another another fun one. Richard share them. A famous playwright known for school for scandal is famous play school for scandal actually procrastinate a little bit on anyway. Too low too late. He actually wasn't done until opening night. Okay, when I say he wasn't done at the opening night, I mean that the play was going on. And the actors didn't know how the play was going to end. He's furiously scribbling and handing off pages to other actors, I would have quit Not only did the people stay around, and he was allowed to be venerated as a writer, but school for scandal was a hit. I mean, cats like Oscar Wilde seichim as inspiration. Alaska got his stuff done. Nah, personal responsibility. While we're doing this here, one pull up one more thing. And let's play a song. I want to pull up this thing from the roof. Talking about personal responsibility and inequality. I found something in the comments on all my comments read and type of cat. And I thought that it was really, it really was heartbreaking seeing this cat talking about my job now I'm the first person in the organization 35 year history to read a month by month development chart sticked every month deliverables and hit them. And in my department, I'm the only one threes actually hitting fundraising goals and exceeding but we hired a white woman to take the department over she's going to outsource my job. And meanwhile, my blonde female coworker who's dropped over a million dollars he rants because she won't do simple things like read the proposal or use too many characters. And the response is getting prepped to move up the chain and get handed a bunch more responsibility. At what point is personal responsibility supposed to kick in because I am succeeding downward while my coworkers are failing upwards and this is the real real thing I want to say about personal responsibility. It's an Okie doke. It's a con not the concept of personal sponsor you but the phrase meaning that you have the ability to change stuff, but you actually don't have the ability to change. It's put on you and you are blamed. And then when things happen out of your control, it's just oh well you should have made yourself a more attractive prospect should

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

have tried harder. I should have worked harder you should have done more. You

Dyalekt:

shouldn't have worn that skirt. You should have had protection on us could have

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

had your hair back You shouldn't listen

Dyalekt:

to those people you should have known should have known even though don't nobody know this let's let's go to a song. Yeah. Because we're gonna go to a whole nother country this is that last song was your last time you're gonna get today in English. So if you speak other languages you go have fun hopefully if you don't feel the language we're gonna go to Deutschland to Germany for a cat named lazy l out of munchen Germany he's got a song called kind of stress that means no stress. So check that out and get back

Unknown:

yeah Vitor dang last wish not invest in Cyprus suppliers have a place to spread centralized spreads fighter dang plus was not for spam non import business suffers from lack of place to spread Obama requests in the Muslim spring the poles and controls and lazy kind of fold x muscle from them good content and span title house close to a standstill on both compose crash and burn laying in the home the crews like special band of distillation and accessibility can see David thank you john for London start playing a fucking freestyle session calls also team Medina tees up Nash to centralized plus was not an office supplies in lack of a place to spread. fighter dang plus was not able to import this supplies

Dyalekt:

from El L. Talking about kind of stress

Unknown:

from the EP somehow

Dyalekt:

this Sunday

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Oh lazy afternoon.

Dyalekt:

I'm Lazy Sunday, like a lazy afternoon, you're thinking of the root sign.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I love that song. You

Dyalekt:

just do the same verse differently every time. But you're talking about Lazy Sunday. That's the work of Narnia.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I feel like we just need to have more songs about people being lazy and a be okay.

Dyalekt:

The whole thing can stress me to no stress. It's like, Hey, I'm taking a break. I'm chilling. Even at the end. I'm talking about this is a freestyle session. I'm just jamming and having some fun with the song.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. All right. So we are talking about personal responsibility, say and the myth of personal responsibility. Can personal responsibility close the racial wealth divide so many people know? And so well, because so many people believe that personal responsibility is the reason why the racial wealth divide exists,

Dyalekt:

right? It allows you to be okay, but the way that you take advantage of stuff, yeah, there's no alcohol consumption under capitalism. I wish I knew where that code originally came from. I don't know what anyone really knows at this point. But it's really powerful. Because this is the thing, it sucks that the stuff that we get that's good, especially in America comes from the backs of people who've been stepped on and, and a lot of times, we want to just absolve ourselves of it. Yeah. And be like, I don't know how to make things better. I'm not going to try to make things better. So it's just I believe that other people did wrong. And it's gonna be okay. Yeah. And I'll just take

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

care of myself. And that's it. Right? And well, and the thing is to like, the human nature, we want to feel in control of our situation, right? The the idea of personal responsibility is appealing, because it feels like that we can change what's going on. And when you don't believe that, and you don't have that, then then what do you have for a lot of people, right, and I think that's what's so hard to really like come to terms with is, there are things you can do, there are actions you can take when you are not personally responsible for everything that's gone wrong in your life? You know, you're not personally responsible.

Dyalekt:

in your communities. Yeah, exactly. That's one of the things you know, just as we say, like our community can uplift us and take us places. We also when we don't get the places we want to be folks can blame the community.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Right. When speaking of community, one of the big things that people believe will close the racial wealth divide is buying black or baking black. Right?

Dyalekt:

I've often talked about, hey, we talked about that. And we talked about it a lot, because we do think that's an important thing. If the government is not taking care of reparations, we do need to redistribute some

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

kind of way, right? Well, the government in Nixon's era Nixon, Richard Nixon, Richard Nixon, not normally. No, Richard Richard, Dick Nixon wanted to actually invest in black capitalism. This we got this from the report as well. The Duke University report, black capitalism was a solution that would allow the government to hand over the economic problems of poverty and insufficient wealth in the black community, to the community itself, effectively reading the government of responsibility.

Dyalekt:

Now, that is a tricky dick.

Unknown:

Right?

Dyalekt:

What was funny about it is I feel like that attempt, like well, it did set folks back, I think that it wasn't even able to be fully implemented. Because this is we talked about getting out of these things takes a lot of different factors. instituting that takes so many more factors that I think are pretty intractable. I don't think you can go from a farm.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Well, let's start with banking, right? banking, Black has become a huge thing has become you know, there's a lot of people were like bank, like,

Dyalekt:

it's become a thing that people say a lot,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

right? put your money in black banks, right? Well, what it's hard to find a black owned bank. And one of the reasons why is because there's not a lot of money in the black community to put into black banks. The thing is that banking relies on people leaving their money at the bank, lots of money, lots of money, the way that a bank makes money, is they take your deposits that you leave in there, and they turn around and they make loans to other customers, right. And they make their money on the difference between the interest rate they pay you and the interest rate that they charge someone else.

Dyalekt:

So when we were talking about the segregation thing, we're saying that black banks, they fell, they couldn't have between the ABS and now Yeah, and there was like 60, some analysis around 20, some, very few now. So even though there are fewer events, it's not that competition has made them consolidate, like, you know, there's just one basketball or a few Pepsi chains or video game store and things like that. It's these companies were cut in half because of discrimination. And also, they didn't grow, because they don't have enough capital to get with. Well,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

yeah, they're not enough. There's not enough. Well, and here's the thing, if you think about, one of the things they found was because black families have little liquid wealth, right? We saw the numbers. If you're not a homeowner, your average net worth is $120. So people are using bank accounts in at Black banks, especially because black people bank at Black banks. They're using their checking account for day to day between expenses. It's just paycheck to paycheck, so they're not leaving a huge amount of savings. They're not leaving a ton of actual capital in these banks to actually allow the banks to grow their businesses,

Dyalekt:

which is the case for a lot of banks. But with a lot of banks, you also have the whales, right? You have the money, people that are millionaires

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

and billionaires, right. And they're the ones who are not big in black.

Dyalekt:

So like when we talk about black banks and their ability to do anything, we would need more people who are not black to bank there so that we could just like fill up the pool period. And also it feels like with like your 25 ish black banks, I wonder if we should talk to the public about this. If we could get all of the black billionaires or big multimillionaires to choose one.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, each black billionaire?

Dyalekt:

I would actually wonder if that would be enough where they would need two or three billionaires to actually really be able to grow? I don't know.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah. But that's what needs to happen, essentially, right? Where when we talk about wealth redistribution, we also are talking about in terms of like how wealth is distributed and where it sits. Because the other thing that people love saying, especially when it comes to buying black, don't spend money outside of the black community, right? Like there's there's this, there's this number that's floating out there that the black buying power is $1.2 trillion, right, which was a lot of money, right?

Dyalekt:

A lot of money, I can hardly fathom a billion fathoming a trillion is not gonna happen. Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

And there's I mean, there's a whole other thing that goes into, like how that number was calculated, and if it's accurate or not, let's go with that number. Right. So the estimated black buying power is $1.2 trillion. That's only 60% of the value of JP Morgan's total assets that they have in your bank.

Dyalekt:

Wow. So JP Morgan has more than a trillion of

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

assets, JP Morgan, the bank itself $1.2 trillion, only 60% of their total assets. Yeah.

Dyalekt:

So when we're talking about it in the larger scale, it's not actually as powerful as we're talking about $1.2

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

trillion is the big number. But it's not it's not a big number.

Dyalekt:

I mean, you know, most recent COVID relief bill was for 1.9 trillion. Yeah, I forget exactly how much but it was more than a trillion when they did the first one a year ago. Yeah, they do just throw around trillions like

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

they do well. And that's Think about it. It's JP Morgan. That's one bank. What about Bank of America? What

Dyalekt:

about Citibank, right? What about Wells Fargo, all of these places also hold wealth. And we're not even talking about investment banks like UBS and Barclays and things like that. So and also, when we talk about black buying power, I mean, so many of these things go to necessities that like the crossover between buying from the ones that we already have, and moving into some black owned community owned type of thing. There's like it would take so much, we're not telling anybody out there not to start a bank not to start a grocery store, you know, these are honorable things. And if you believe in them, and you have an idea, go ahead with it. But there were amazingly high obstacles when you face

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

those things. Yeah, there really is. Well, and speaking of banks, let's talk about saving, right? Because a lot of people are like, well, black families need to put a greater emphasis on saving, right, just need to save or need to stop spending frivolously stop buying those sneakers and those big screen TVs, and blah, blah, whatever it is. But let's look at the numbers, right? Because when you control for income, black families actually have a slightly higher savings rate than white families. And they found that when you compare spending to income, white families actually spend 1.3 times more as consumers than black families do.

Dyalekt:

Whoa, we got to live with this. So what about personal responsibility? your wealth divide? white folks are spending a third more?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yep, yep, they're spending a third more. And they're saving less than black families dollar for dollar.

Dyalekt:

So they're spending more they're saving less? Mm hmm. I know. I don't know how this breaks down along racial lines. But I know that people with high net worth contribute way less to charitable thing.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, compared to the dollars. Yeah,

Unknown:

dollars

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

on the dollars they make like, especially when you look at like when billionaires donate like $100 million, or $10 million, or whatever it is, that's a drop in the bucket. That's like you putting $20 in the collection plate compared to how much money they have. And that's the thing is, when you compare it to actual percentages, black families save more and spend less period. That's what happens, right? And so savings is not the answer, because they're doing it already.

Dyalekt:

Yeah.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

So what about the lack of financial

Dyalekt:

outcomes are already saving,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, already saving I just

Dyalekt:

want like, let's take a moment to appeal hearten about people's because you know, that means that people aren't as lazy, stupid or bad at this as people would like them to believe. Now, you know, we're not when you talk about doing the math, I want to Can I make a little one that I talk about with my students? Whenever I'm talking to teachers, I've gone into places where I've had teachers tell me that the thing they need to teach their kids is not to be like their parents buying the big screen TVs and buying the Nike shoes. That's That's why that's why they're in there. Okay. So So doing really generous man, buying your average big screen TV is gonna cost you roughly a jeep. Yeah, but $1,000 and your Nike shoes being real all over the place, let's say $200.12 $100 we're talking about, if you are a family who was making $20,000, you really can't save much really can't do a lot. And there's not a lot of economic mobility. But people were like, Hey, you shouldn't be buying those big screen TVs. And I hear that, right? That's got to be tough with your tight budget. So when you break it down, a TV is gonna last you at least five years, definitely. And your shoes are gonna last you at least a couple of years. So let's average it, let's say three years, right? 12 $100 over three years, that is $400 a year, that's less than 5%. Of what you make.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Hold on,

Dyalekt:

it's actually stupid. I got it. Oh, it's 2% 2%.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That's 2% of your income. If you're making $20,000

Dyalekt:

it's not the thing that is making those families not able to take care of their families. Yeah, it's the fact that they made $20,000 that, yeah,

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

imagine trying to live on that. If you don't already, like freely,

Dyalekt:

that's like, that's not a down payment

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

on a lot of homes for real, how you gonna save that much money. If that's what you make. That's not enough

Dyalekt:

to give your family the ability to go on vacation. It's not enough for you to move from one place to another place for there's a better job. closer to your job, that big screen TV that costs you $400 a year. I mean, hey, you can't afford a trip. So that's the vacation that your kids get, yeah, stay at home and watch some TV, they get a new TV, they get to stay home and watch some TV. Wow. Yeah, those things that you're talking about are like these amazing luxuries. Those are things that are given kids the ability to feel like there is a tomorrow. Yeah, because otherwise sometimes I feel like there's not for us, you got for us.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

I mean, the last thing I have is lack of financial literacy is what people love to say, right? Well, if people just knew better if they understood the financial system more than they would have made these mistakes. And the big thing people point to is, well, really like low income people shouldn't do predatory lending. They should Don't they know better. Don't they know how much interest they charge or what you're focused on? Like, they charge them with interest, right payday loans, payday advances, all of these things like you shouldn't go there, you should know better than to go there. And look how much interest they're charging. Anytime someone asks us to teach a workshop to adults, they always wanted to talk about predatory lending, and they always want us to tell them, tell people not to do it. It's like, Well, duh, I wouldn't do it unless I had to.

Dyalekt:

Yeah, and that's the thing. But hey, I mean, I remember when I was 19, or 20. And I was subletting from somebody I came home and my place was boarded up, person, I was paying money, too, did you finish paying to them, and I got extra jobs like to overtime, or where I was, I was begging and borrowing from all my peoples. And in the end, it still wasn't enough. And if I was gonna have a place to sleep, I took a payday loan. And it took me four years to pay it off. And it was terrible. And I knew better. And I had to do it anyway, when people talk about rappers and then whenever people meet me into like, oh, finance, or rap and stuff like that. It's like, oh, too bad. Those rappers in the 90s took those bad deals because they didn't know better. Sometimes they didn't know better. But a lot of times they knew they went there and they read it. But what were you gonna do somebody else? Who else was giving you a million dollar advance?

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

Yeah, it was your only option. That's usually what happens. Financial literacy is not the answer. Financial Literacy says, Oh, well, don't you understand compound interest. If you only knew, if you only understood compound interest, then you could invest? Right? If you only understood XYZ, then you would make different decisions. And the reality is that the situation that we put people in, don't allow them to make different decisions. It's not about personal responsibility. It's about needing to change the system. It's about needing to really make policy that pushes these things forward. So we do have wealth redistribution. So we do have reparations. So we do actually put people on a level playing field.

Dyalekt:

And so for the personal finance folks are not the policy, folks.

Pamela Capalad, CFP, AFC:

That's the question, what do we do, right? Because that's my personal responsibility is so appealing. And the thing is that we do encourage you to build up your savings, we encourage you to have a good credit score, we encourage you to do your tax, we encourage you to do all these things. Because we want you to think of personal finance as a revolutionary act. When you have that foundation, when you're able to take care of yourself, when you're able to have made some sacrifices and put your community and put your family in a different position, then we're able to have power to change policy.

Dyalekt:

I know some of that may seem contradictory. It's not really that you're able to make some sacrifices what it is because even person responsibly gets into what we are saying to you. When you're able to make it so that you are more comfortable than you were yesterday, you have more energy and more time to deal with these larger things that are dealing that are taking care of the entire system. And when you can do that you can actually start fighting for something that's going to make change. Until then you are just like this last song we've got from Maya Portugal from the artists being lazy with paratus To sorrow you're a pirate without treasure fighting, hacking doing all the tricks going over the high seas or to open up an empty box and we'll check y'all next time Thank you for listening if you go on to iTunes or any of these sites iTunes or even just no more if you go there with Apple podcasts or any other places YouTube we're on spawn Deluxe which is a wonderful financial literacy and resilience based streaming network he does rate us debate as any kind of thing you want to check out lazy here from Portugal and we'll check you next time is brunch and budget podcast

Unknown:

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